Anybody else disgusted with Richardson?

[rayzor]

You missed the point totally. It isn't about Hoover being old or whatever it is more that we are doing things differently than we ever have for better or worse. In previous years we would rewarding Hoover for his years of service by keeping him around, paying him what is a relatively small salary and letting him play out his career and retire a Panthers. We have always been loyal to the veterans and rewarded them for their loyalty as well.

Not anymore. Some will lament it and some will say it was about time. I am not even arguing whether it was good or bad. My point is that nothing is business as usual anymore. So all the things we held as truths for the Panthers are no longer apropos.

status quo is gone.

it's about time.

[bleys]

Of course you would because you can front load the contracts and take the salary hit when there isn't a cap consequence. If you wait until next year to do it then if there is a salary cap you will have to adhere to it. Plus if you put off the extensions until next year and then have to pay all of the upfront money when you sign them, you will have twice as much money to pay then if you spread it out over 2 years. Or if money is tight sign someone and let someone lese go because you don't have the money to sign both. Plus signing a guy like Davis now after he is coming off injury will be much cheaper than waiting until he has a pro bowl year like he was having before his injury.

If Miami can sign Marshall to the contract that they did, then why can't we do anything. Few other folks seem as concerned as the Panthers. Chicago paid Peppers a ton and the list goes on. When the CBA is signed and there isn't a lockout, the teams that counted on one and aligned everything to account for it will be behind the 8 ball when it doesn't happen because they will have missed out on a bunch of guys who could had for cheap. The best time to buy anything is when the prices are down and the demand is low. You get much better deals than waiting until things go back up to a premium. Richardson is purposely going on the cheap and blaming the lockout which won't happen by almost everyone's opinion including Goodell. It makes no sense if you look beyond the surface.

this is actually a great point that I haven't even thought of.. if we signed 4 of our core (say, Beason, Davis, Stewart, DWill, or mix and match how you want).. and we take a huuuuuge hit in the 1st year without a cap, then we may in fact reduce our cap hit over the next few years and look brilliant along the way...

and just because "no one is doing it" doesn't mean poo to me.. lol.. that would be why the idea is so brilliant because no one else has thought of it.. The money will spent regardless, this way we can control how it hits us and it won't reflect when the CBA is set back in place..

Also, this would actually be a smart way to sign both DWill and Stewart... load up the 1st year on both of them, and then keep the rest of the beginning years of DWill contract front loaded and Stewart backloaded.. (in theory anyhow)

I like it... although this is all in theory, mostly because I doubt something like this would happen.

[CRA]

Hoover? Man..he has always been a favorite of mine to...but I didn't expect to hold onto him as long as we did. We are moving on, and how long are we suppose to coddle his replacement? Our staff never gets a break. They get poo on for relying on veterans...and they get poo on for going with their youth. I understand change is scary at times..but its not as bad as ya making it out to be.

they get poo for relying on vets w/ better talent on the bench.....I don't agree w/ that saying. They stubbornly just commit to certain players in general.

Coddle his replacement? Shoot, a FA pickup last year that was a RB blocked better than Tony. Hoov has been argueable the best or 2nd best blocking RB in the NFL the past two seasons. Carolina isn't all in....b/c he would be in a Panther uniform.

[Fiz]

the get poo for relying on vets w/ better talent.....I don't agree w/ that saying. They stubbornly just commit to certain players in general.

Coddle his replacement? Shoot, a FA pickup last that was a RB blocked better than Tony. Hoov has been argueable the best or 2nd best blocking RB in the NFL the past two seasons. Carolina isn't all in....b/c he would be in a Panther uniform.

the panthers were more than fine last year running the ball in games without hoover.

you've all built hoover up to this god like entity in your minds because they always wrote puff pieces about him.

[CRA]

the panthers were more than fine last year running the ball in games without hoover.

you've all built hoover up to this god like entity in your minds because they always wrote puff pieces about him.

Can they get by without him? Yes. Was he easily one of the best if not best blocking FB in the NFL the past two years? Yes.

The only reason to point out Hoov is that Carolina this offseason is doing business like never before in the Fox era......yet, people want to act like it is business as usual.

[rayzor]

Can they get by without him? Yes. Was he easily one of the best if not best blocking FB in the NFL the past two years? Yes.

The only reason to point out Hoov is that Carolina this offseason is doing business like never before in the Fox era......yet, people want to act like it is business as usual.

the reason i am so happy is that it is NOT business as usual. they have rejected the status quo. they have made an attempt to go with the youth and work on getting the younger talent involved...something that had been a criticism of this team for years. they were loyal to a fault to their vets.

they finally decided to deviate from this and people are having a cow because they didn't realize that meant getting rid of some of their more beloved vets.

if fox is not re-signed to a new deal then fox loyalists will be screaming bloody murder and say that is proof that jerry didn't want to win this year and that this year was only to set the stage for a regime change or some other garbage.

i can't wait to see the melt down when we change coaches at some point. there will most likely be a drop off in production and they will struggle because of having to get used to a new scheme and new management. these same people that are complaining now will be complaining even more saying, "wasn't the new coach supposed to make us better? BRING BACK FOX!!!! THE FO IS STUPID!!! JERRY IS A DISGUSTING OLD MAN WHO WANTS TO LOSE!!!!!!"

when there are changes made there will most likely be a little adjustment that could result in a loss or two that wouldn't have happened otherwise but does that mean the change was wrong? nope. it just means that the positive results might take a little longer, some more tweaking has to be done, and some people have to grow more into their roles. the fans just need a little more patience and quit being drama queens.

btw...this doesn't make one an apologist...it makes them a realist. the people that are really watching will be aware of this and notice what adjustments have to be made and i, with others, will be clamoring for them to be made.

[CRA]

the reason i am so happy is that it is NOT business as usual. they have rejected the status quo. they have made an attempt to go with the youth and work on getting the younger talent involved...something that had been a criticism of this team for years. they were loyal to a fault to their vets.

they finally decided to deviate from this and people are having a cow because they didn't realize that meant getting rid of some of their more beloved vets.

if fox is not re-signed to a new deal then fox loyalists will be screaming bloody murder and say that is proof that jerry didn't want to win this year and that this year was only to set the stage for a regime change or some other garbage.

i can't wait to see the melt down when we change coaches at some point. there will most likely be a drop off in production and they will struggle because of having to get used to a new scheme and new management. these same people that are complaining now will be complaining even more saying, "wasn't the new coach supposed to make us better? BRING BACK FOX!!!! THE FO IS STUPID!!! JERRY IS A DISGUSTING OLD MAN WHO WANTS TO LOSE!!!!!!"

when there are changes made there will most likely be a little adjustment that could result in a loss or two that wouldn't have happened otherwise but does that mean the change was wrong? nope. it just means that the positive results might take a little longer, some more tweaking has to be done, and some people have to grow more into their roles. the fans just need a little more patience and quit being drama queens.

btw...this doesn't make one an apologist...it makes them a realist. the people that are really watching will be aware of this and notice what adjustments have to be made and i, with others, will be clamoring for them to be made.

Hey man, I agree w/ everything they are doing.....I just fully realize it is a part of a bigger plan. Also, winning it all isn't the main focus this year....sure, they will try to....but in years past there moves OR non moves indicated they believed they were in position to win it all.

Also, if Fox is gone......the team will be filled w/ young talent....and a lot of young talent like E. Brown that got loads of experience in 2010. Also, there will be money to make some big FA moves to solve the major weaknesses......I also don't think in today's NFL that you can't be a contender year 1 with a new coach (pending the talent is there).

[CatMan72]

I'm resigned to the fact that Mr. Richardson is putting the NFL ahead of the Panthers this year. He is one of the leaders of the current labor negociations, so he can't very well talk the talk if he's not willing to walk the walk.

I'm sure he views this as a short term loss for the sake of much greater long term gain. The NFL logo in the middle of our field says it all... league first, team second. I'm not disgusted with Mr. Richardson because I realize he's doing what he has to do for the greater good.

[blackcatgrowl]

I'm resigned to the fact that Mr. Richardson is putting the NFL ahead of the Panthers this year. He is one of the leaders of the current labor negociations, so he can't very well talk the talk if he's not willing to walk the walk.

I'm sure he views this as a short term loss for the sake of much greater long term gain. The NFL logo in the middle of our field says it all... league first, team second. I'm not disgusted with Mr. Richardson because I realize he's doing what he has to do for the greater good.

I don't see how short-changing our roster is going to help the NFL's labor negotiations. What possible good can benefit the NFL by the Panthers not buying a team that can go to the playoffs or win the Superbowl?

Well, the obvious answer is that the only "greater good" being influenced here is the payroll account for the Panther organization. One thing many people aren't aware of, or aren't factoring in, is that this year not only has no cap... but it has no floor either.

The CBA floor was 75% of the Cap. From what I've read, the floor was 95 million last year. The last figures I've seen we are under the old floor by a few million (that might have changed). In any case, with Free Agency winding down and comments by Hurney, it doesn't look like they're going to be doing anything else.

Come what may, I'm not happy with the direction the Front Office has taken with Free Agency. It's becoming more evident to me that the 2010 season is being treated as a potential throw away in order to save money.

The irony here, is that losing games, especially in Charlotte, is going to cost them more money in lost revenue from lack of interest, then they would spend to put a team together that has a shot at the Lombardi.

So... I've taken a new perspective on JR after this off-season. I always thought he was a passionate owner. Now, he seems more of a businessman first, Team Owner second.

I guess it just is what it is?

[pantherclaw]

You missed the point totally. It isn't about Hoover being old or whatever it is more that we are doing things differently than we ever have for better or worse. In previous years we would rewarding Hoover for his years of service by keeping him around, paying him what is a relatively small salary and letting him play out his career and retire a Panthers. We have always been loyal to the veterans and rewarded them for their loyalty as well.

Not anymore. Some will lament it and some will say it was about time. I am not even arguing whether it was good or bad. My point is that nothing is business as usual anymore. So all the things we held as truths for the Panthers are no longer apropos.

So we should use a roster spot to keep ahold of hoover? If he wants to retire a panther....that can. And would be done. Richardson would see to it.

[Sloth]

There's a difference in wanting young guys to get their shot when they outperform a vet and just giving them their shot regardless of their performance.

Fiametta/Hoover isn't the only example of this, just the most obvious.

[panthers55]

So we should use a roster spot to keep ahold of hoover? If he wants to retire a panther....that can. And would be done. Richardson would see to it.

We have addressed this ad nauseum but the facts are Hoover was more productive than Fiametta. He played more games, we won more when he was in and Fiametta hasn't shown he is durable at all. Maybe I am the only concerned he had a concussion which took him out of 5 games in a psotion where you are expected to stick your head in there and be a battering ram. Hoover was still a better option so yes he should have gotten a roster spot.

There's a difference in wanting young guys to get their shot when they outperform a vet and just giving them their shot regardless of their performance.

Fiametta/Hoover isn't the only example of this, just the most obvious.

Exactly. Fiametta didn't do squat last year. Everyone on his nuts hopes he does better but there is no evidence to prove he will. He only started 2 games and didn't have one catch or run all year. At least Hoover has 20 carries 2 TDs and several first downs. Honestly there was no competition and any other year but a cost cutting one Hoover would still be penciled in as the starter.

[panthers55]

I'm resigned to the fact that Mr. Richardson is putting the NFL ahead of the Panthers this year. He is one of the leaders of the current labor negociations, so he can't very well talk the talk if he's not willing to walk the walk.

I'm sure he views this as a short term loss for the sake of much greater long term gain. The NFL logo in the middle of our field says it all... league first, team second. I'm not disgusted with Mr. Richardson because I realize he's doing what he has to do for the greater good.

Then cut ticket prices the same 20% he is cutting the budget and we might be happier with a watered down product on the field. Better yet make beer prices 2 bucks a piece and by the third quarter we won't care that we are getting our butts waxed.

[Wither]

Exactly. Fiametta didn't do squat last year. Everyone on his nuts hopes he does better but there is no evidence to prove he will. He only started 2 games and didn't have one catch or run all year. At least Hoover has 20 carries 2 TDs and several first downs. Honestly there was no competition and any other year but a cost cutting one Hoover would still be penciled in as the starter.

I thought most were worried about his ability to block, not run or catch the ball? In fact, isn't that what the Panthers mainly use the FB for? Wait, isn't that what most of the NFL use the FB for?