Why even be mad at about this one?

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, Waldo said:

It's 2 years in the modern NFL. That's taking the NFCS and making the playoffs as a likely to be bounced team. And again they didn't try to tear it down but just have done everything poorly. 2 years of great management would be the 2 year turnaround. Your being dramatic. It's likely years because Tepper keeps hiring poorly and managing them poorly not because it can't be turned around that quickly. Wilks built culture on a bad team in half a season so again it's is even attainable for that guy who is a dinosaur in the modern NFL. 

I am not being dramatic. Name one instance of a worst to first in the last 20 years with a roster as bad as this.

I don't think you realize or accept how bad this roster is. 

[FattyFatFat]

I’m more disheartened by the notion that we are terrible at evaluating talent. So not only do we not have much talent, actually drafting talented people seems to be a challenge. I don’t see a fix with our current drafting and evaluation philosophy. Ultimately I see Carolina as a farm team for the rest of the NFL. What little talent we have will be signed away by other teams. It’s a shame. Tepper destroyed this team. 
 

 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, FattyFatFat said:

I’m more disheartened by the notion that we are terrible at evaluating talent. So not only do we not have much talent, actually drafting talented people seems to be a challenge. I don’t see a fix with our current drafting and evaluation philosophy. Ultimately I see Carolina as a farm team for the rest of the NFL. What little talent we have will be signed away by other teams. It’s a shame. Tepper destroyed this team. 

Hence why so many of us did not want to see Morgan installed as GM. He was Fitterer's assistant GM. Is anyone really buying that for some reason he disagreed with every lightspeed stupid move Fitterer made?

Or is it just much more likely that they largely agreed on the bulk of these decisions? 

So, until we get real change in that FO, the expectations are going to remain extremely low.

[Waldo]

16 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I am not being dramatic. Name one instance of a worst to first in the last 20 years with a roster as bad as this.

I don't think you realize or accept how bad this roster is. 

It's dramatic because the NFL is built to allow that comeback. It's not the 70's pre free agency. We just haven't had the people to be able to do much good. That is much worse than the roster level IMO because it's how we got here and why we will stay here if it doesn't change. 

Tampa was last in the division in 2018 and won a SB in 2021. They were second by a game in 2020 and that weird season. That's not even looking outside of the NFCS. In 2 years a team can dramatically turn it around if they do good things and not the crap this team has been doing for years. 

[Waldo]

31 minutes ago, FattyFatFat said:

I’m more disheartened by the notion that we are terrible at evaluating talent. So not only do we not have much talent, actually drafting talented people seems to be a challenge. I don’t see a fix with our current drafting and evaluation philosophy. Ultimately I see Carolina as a farm team for the rest of the NFL. What little talent we have will be signed away by other teams. It’s a shame. Tepper destroyed this team. 
 

 

It's how they got to where they are at. And it's the biggest reason they will stay there until something changes on that front in a big way. 

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, Waldo said:

It's dramatic because the NFL is built to allow that comeback. It's not the 70's pre free agency. We just haven't had the people to be able to do much good. That is much worse than the roster level IMO because it's how we got here and why we will stay here if it doesn't change. 

Tampa was last in the division in 2018 and won a SB in 2021. They were second by a game in 2020 and that weird season. That's not even looking outside of the NFCS. In 2 years a team can dramatically turn it around if they do good things and not the crap this team has been doing for years. 

Yes, the NFL is built for parity. No doubt about it. So how do teams end up being terrible for years?

By doing what we have from 2018 onward. It is exceedingly rare what we did, which was take a roster from 2017 and basically completely dismantled it in a couple of years. Then further continued to make it progressively worse and stripped of talent as the years went by. 

This isn't a common occurrence. We are embarking on a road not often traveled because typically to start it as a FO or coach is basically guaranteed to be gone whenever it completes.

That's literally what happened here. Rhule and then Fitterer tried to desconstruct this roster further and further and succeeded masterfully.

But neither had the vision to construct a new one, nor the intelligence to do so.

So now we just sit with a roster of jouneymen, busts and borderline NFL players. What do you propose? Cut them all and sign/draft 20 in 2025 and another 20 in 2026? Good luck winning with that.

This is why I am saying and have been saying this. There is no quick fix. It takes years of patience and competence to fix. Neither of those are in our organization.

Edited 2 hours ago by kungfoodude

[raleigh-panther]

Can’t fix a bad billionaire owner

 

[Waldo]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yes, the NFL is built for parity. No doubt about it. So how do teams end up being terrible for years?

By doing what we have from 2018 onward. It is exceedingly rare what we did, which was take a roster from 2017 and basically completely dismantled it in a couple of years. Then further continued to make it progressively worse and stripped of talent as the years went by. 

This isn't a common occurrence. We are embarking on a road not often traveled because typically to start it as a FO or coach is basically guaranteed to be gone whenever it completes.

That's literally what happened here. Rhule and then Fitterer tried to desconstruct this roster further and further and succeeded masterfully.

But neither had the vision to construct a new one, nor the intelligence to do so.

So now we just sit with a roster of jouneymen, busts and borderline NFL players. What do you propose? Cut them all and sign/draft 20 in 2025 and another 20 in 2026? Good luck winning with that.

This is why I am saying and have been saying this. There is no quick fix. It takes years of patience and competence to fix. Neither of those are in our organization.

I agree but Rhule and Fritterer were what happens when the people retooling are terrible at talent evaluation and team building, neither should have been hired. It's still a 2 year fix in the modern NFL if you have good people...which I don't think we have yet. That's the pivot point, good people doing the work. That's also been the problem here. The roster quality is just the effect of terrible hiring. Change that and it would turn around in a small window.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, Waldo said:

I agree but Rhule and Fritterer were what happens when the people retooling are terrible at talent evaluation and team building, neither should have been hired. It's still a 2 year fix in the modern NFL if you have good people...which I don't think we have yet. That's the pivot point, good people doing the work. That's also been the problem here. The roster quality is just the effect of terrible hiring. Change that and it would turn around in a small window.

It's a 2 year fix if you have an average NFL roster. It's not a 2 year fix if you have a bottom 5 NFL roster. As I said, those type of turnarounds are not at all common.

[Waldo]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

It's a 2 year fix if you have an average NFL roster. It's not a 2 year fix if you have a bottom 5 NFL roster. As I said, those type of turnarounds are not at all common.

I disagree. It doesn't matter because Tepper is all in on terrible or underqualified people. He is a magnet for failures.

[kungfoodude]

17 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I disagree. It doesn't matter because Tepper is all in on terrible or underqualified people. He is a magnet for failures.

I will take a look at 2003 to 2023 and see the probability of having a winning record in the next two seasons after finishing .300 or less. Probably will take a little while to compile.

[Manna]

Didn't Dan and Dave say during OTAs to basically have low expectations for the season? I believe Reich said something similar last year as well. I'd say my expectations are really low already but the Panthers can't even meet those low expectations.