Coker

[Waldo]

12 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I don’t think XL is much of a project. He isn’t killing it immediately like a top rookie WR would but his stats aren’t far off from Ladd and yeah Ladd’s only played 4, but we barely used XL in game 1 and he had Bryce throwing him the ball in game 2. We need ousted WRs. Slots just seem easier to come by. What outside WR did you want us to draft at 32 over XL? 
Who cares what our old fired staff failed to develop? This is our coach’s first year and he was zeroed in on XL. What Rhule, Reich, and Rivera did in the past has nothing to do with Canales. XL fits what Canales wants to do. Let’s just let him build his team because it’s going to happen whether we like it or not. 

His tendency to body catch makes him a project alone. I'm not grading everyone else on the first 2 games, that was about Bryce and this teams past mistakes. He was always a project compared to the other guys they could have drafted who were much more NFL ready. What was the stat, good WRs produce immediately now and don't really have a slump? He looks closer to Mingo and TMJ then the guys doing well now in his draft class. He is a project and always was. Hopefully he can become an Evens but he looks more like our regular 2nd round WRs and that's not good.

And the GM was part of the failed staff last year so no passes on that either. If Dan would have come out and drafted like Fritters wasn't still here anymore then I would give him one but it's way too similar for me. DC wants to pass when he needs to run so it's not like he isn't comparable to the past failures either. His expensive oline is falling apart also. He has all year to prove himself but nothing but benching Bryce looks good yet. It's early but there are plenty of earned criticisms.

[WhoKnows]

23 hours ago, 33inNC said:

This. There is no way in hell TMJ is not better than Mingo. But, it is Tepper once again letting his ego dictate what we do. Admit it, your boy Fitt drafted like crap. 

Can we not act like TMJ wasn’t awful? Mingo may be worse but neither one should be on the team. We’ve got too many guys who wouldn’t be on any other roster. TMJ hasn’t played at all this year, not even sure if he’s on a team anymore.

[Gapanthersfan]

15 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

You don't draft developmental guys in the first or second round unless you are a bad franchise. We consistently do this. Shocker of all shockers, it almost never works out.

This is what happened to Mingo and is likely to happen to XL.

Ever wonder why we can't develop these guys? Probably because we have the same level of terrible decision making as overdrafting guys like those in the first place that hiring coaches.

Also, name some guys in the last decade that didn't develop here and then went elsewhere to develop? It isn't just us that can't do it. We choose the wrong prospects many more times than we don't.

Yes. 

Year after year they draft high with ‘potential’ guys thinking every time that they can coach em up… well we can’t. And don’t. And the cycle continues. 

The only way this team has found success in the past is with a squad of otherworldly studs that can take a game over on their own. Cam, Luke, Greg, Davis all on the field at the same time?

SS89, peppers, Jenkins, Stephen Davis, Delhomme….

All players that if they catch a gear, it’s a wrap. That’s how this team wins. They never coach up anyone. They rely on striking gold on the HOF ready player to come in and be the savior of the season. Those rosters challenge any of the SB teams, talent wise, except for a precious few… LOB Seahawks, etc. 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

Yes. 

Year after year they draft high with ‘potential’ guys thinking every time that they can coach em up… well we can’t. And don’t. And the cycle continues. 

The only way this team has found success in the past is with a squad of otherworldly studs that can take a game over on their own. Cam, Luke, Greg, Davis all on the field at the same time?

SS89, peppers, Jenkins, Stephen Davis, Delhomme….

All players that if they catch a gear, it’s a wrap. That’s how this team wins. They never coach up anyone. They rely on striking gold on the HOF ready player to come in and be the savior of the season. Those rosters challenge any of the SB teams, talent wise, except for a precious few… LOB Seahawks, etc. 

Yeah, I just cannot wrap my head around the obsession with "fix er uppers."

We are the neighbor with 60 rusty hulks in their yard and not a single one of them being worked on.

[PantherChris]

17 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

This has zero to do with Bryce Young. It's about drafting a guy that needed to be on the bench for a couple of seasons to figure this poo out when you could have gotten an NFL ready player from day one.

We do this poo all the fuging time and it's infuriating. If the answer to "is he ready to play now" is "no", that is not a top 3 round pick player. That's a fuging day three player.

Not sure who you are referring too but TBH this team is a longggggg way from competing IMO makes drafting high potential more preferable to day 1 starters with lower ceilings. 

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

Not sure who you are referring too but TBH this team is a longggggg way from competing IMO makes drafting high potential more preferable to day 1 starters with lower ceilings. 

No it doesn't. We literally need players that can play professional football now because they are going to be playing professional football now. What help is it for them to go out there and get abused early and often without a shred of development?

How about this, name one of those guys in the past decade that has panned out for us at all?

[WhoKnows]

17 hours ago, Move the Panthers to Raleigh said:

Sigh…another wasted 2nd rounder

Yep and it hurts again since we gave up a 2nd, 4th and 6th for Darnold, a 3rd for Henderson, 2 4ths for DJ and Corral, 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Young and so on, all in 3 years. Wasting 1sts to 3rds can’t keep happening because we don’t have the surplus of picks that most rebuilding teams have.

[Gapanthersfan]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I just cannot wrap my head around the obsession with "fix er uppers."

We are the neighbor with 60 rusty hulks in their yard and not a single one of them being worked on.

It’s the Panthers way. Sucky team, GM is feeling the heat so takes a flier on an injured has been vet and/or a lotto ticket draft. It always fails miserably. He gets fired anyway. And we regress back to the mean. 

And it’s going on again. Everyone clamoring for another savior of the franchise draft pick. What we need is 2 entirely unpopular and boring drafts with guys who just do their damn job. Fundamentally sound. They are run stoppers. Sure tacklers. Nose for the ball. Intelligent. They catch with their hands, and catch every damn ball thrown their way. They don’t miss blocking assignments. They rarely hold or get called for false starts. They actually enjoy playing the game. 

your 4.4 guy ain’t shi* if the ball just bounces off his chest. Your 16 sack guy who is worthless against the run will lose you many more games than he’ll win you. 
 

[WhoKnows]

13 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I don’t think XL is much of a project. He isn’t killing it immediately like a top rookie WR would but his stats aren’t far off from Ladd and yeah Ladd’s only played 4, but we barely used XL in game 1 and he had Bryce throwing him the ball in game 2. We need ousted WRs. Slots just seem easier to come by. What outside WR did you want us to draft at 32 over XL? 
Who cares what our old fired staff failed to develop? This is our coach’s first year and he was zeroed in on XL. What Rhule, Reich, and Rivera did in the past has nothing to do with Canales. XL fits what Canales wants to do. Let’s just let him build his team because it’s going to happen whether we like it or not. 

XL is going to be 24 in January when DJ Moore will still be 27. DJ is now in season 7 in the NFL. We keep drafted older projects, not just projects, but older projects.

I hope XL works out but a first round pick on a guy who didn’t have over 167 yards in college until he was in year 5 is honestly way too risky for this club. Go up and get Thomas or Worthy or stay put and grab Coleman. All of those guys are 2 years younger than Leggette.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

It’s the Panthers way. Sucky team, GM is feeling the heat so takes a flier on an injured has been vet and/or a lotto ticket draft. It always fails miserably. He gets fired anyway. And we regress back to the mean. 

And it’s going on again. Everyone clamoring for another savior of the franchise draft pick. What we need is 2 entirely unpopular and boring drafts with guys who just do their damn job. Fundamentally sound. They are run stoppers. Sure tacklers. Nose for the ball. Intelligent. They catch with their hands, and catch every damn ball thrown their way. They don’t miss blocking assignments. They rarely hold or get called for false starts. They actually enjoy playing the game. 

your 4.4 guy ain’t shi* if the ball just bounces off his chest. Your 16 sack guy who is worthless against the run will lose you many more games than he’ll win you. 
 

We will have a top 5 pick. We need to just not overthink it and get someone who is the best at their position and ready to play NFL football from day one. And not some devalued position like RB or some insanely weak positional class. 

Do the Hurney thing. Just get a can't miss guy in the top 5. Don't make this hard.

After the first round, IDK what to say.....just come to a consensus of what the scouting department and FO want to do with each pick. Once that consensus is reached, just do exactly the opposite of whatever those guys came up with.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

XL is going to be 24 in January when DJ Moore will still be 27. DJ is now in season 7 in the NFL. We keep drafted older projects, not just projects, but older projects.

I hope XL works out but a first round pick on a guy who didn’t have over 167 yards in college until he was in year 5 is honestly way too risky for this club. Go up and get Thomas or Worthy or stay put and grab Coleman. All of those guys are 2 years younger than Leggette.

DJ Johnson comes to mind. Still hasn't made a discernable impact nor developed into a solid rotational guy but will be 26 in a few days. 

[WhoKnows]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

DJ Johnson comes to mind. Still hasn't made a discernable impact nor developed into a solid rotational guy but will be 26 in a few days. 

I posted about him in another thread because folks were getting excited that he’s developing. We’re past participation trophies, especially for a guy who’s 29 in the first year of his second contract (big assumption).

Not sure if you read it, but Burns is in his 6th year and he’s only 6 months older than DJ Johnson. Just the age would have had me going how can we think that a current project player will replace a player who’s basically the same age but already had 5 years in the NFL. That’s a giant red flag. Go find two 21 year old projects instead of trading up for one old project.

[Tr3ach]

45 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

Yes. 

Year after year they draft high with ‘potential’ guys thinking every time that they can coach em up… well we can’t. And don’t. And the cycle continues. 

The only way this team has found success in the past is with a squad of otherworldly studs that can take a game over on their own. Cam, Luke, Greg, Davis all on the field at the same time?

SS89, peppers, Jenkins, Stephen Davis, Delhomme….

All players that if they catch a gear, it’s a wrap. That’s how this team wins. They never coach up anyone. They rely on striking gold on the HOF ready player to come in and be the savior of the season. Those rosters challenge any of the SB teams, talent wise, except for a precious few… LOB Seahawks, etc. 

The thing with drafting guys for potential is they need to be young.  Not a bunch of 5th year seniors.  Those guys are pretty much what they're going to be.  I also don't even see the really high ceiling on most of these guys.   Good size and fast 40 aren't all it takes to have a high potential ceiling.

[Gapanthersfan]

10 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

The thing with drafting guys for potential is they need to be young.  Not a bunch of 5th year seniors.  Those guys are pretty much what they're going to be.  I also don't even see the really high ceiling on most of these guys.   Good size and fast 40 aren't all it takes to have a high potential ceiling.

Yup. It’s just that we have always had trash has been position coaches as well. Without good position coaches, which we almost never have, the young talent never progresses. Additionally, the raw high ceiling guys might be where they are…. Because they just don’t like playing the game all that much so they succeed off of raw God given talent. If a guy with a high ceiling would have put the work in to iron out the wrinkles, he’d be a top 10 pick instead of midway 2nd round. 

So we end up with guys who don’t really live and breathe football, being coached by retread position coaches. Good times. 

This is why we need truly fundamentally sound, NFL ready players.