Andy Dalton is a top 5 QB so far

[frankw]

1 hour ago, travisura said:

Lest we forget the "Protect the Bank" slogan rolled out before the game against the Steelers, only to be embarrassed by Mitch Trubisky of all people. 

There's some rose colored revisionist history going on here.

21 rushing yards. Wilks would have been a decent coach in the 90's or early 2000's. He leaned heavily on a strong running game and stout D in a league that is heavily skewed toward passing. Just not a good fit in the modern NFL. He is also as far as I know currently not coaching. People need to put this one to bed once and for all.

[Waldo]

Wilks is an advisor to the Charlotte 49ers now. Darnold is being carried by a good team and couldn't be in a better situation (good for him, dude has had it rough in the NFL). 

What's next we need to revisit not trading CMC who looks to have achilles tendinitis in both legs. But we could have been just as good as the 49ers with him...JFC what damage has this team done to people over the last couple of years.

[t96]

We were all sick of Rivera being unable to adapt in the modern NFL, why in the world would we stick with a guy in the exact same mold who is just a poor man's version of Rivera. Wilks is an awesome human being, loved having him here pretty much the entire time he was here. Great leader of men and secondary coach. Despite it leading to a HC opportunity I thought he was in over his head in his year as DC here, but he did do well as interim HC. He was just never going to be the long term guy here. His style is just too old school. I prefer that style of football, hard nose defensive oriented game with special teams and time of possession focus and ground and pound on offense. I wish it was still around. But the modern NFL has adapted and coaches need to adapt with it to have success and win. Belichick who despite being a cheater is one of the top 3-5 HCs ever and dude ran the pats into the ground lately because of this same thing -- the game has passed him by. Wilks too. Just because Tepper has made even worse decisions since then does not mean that hiring Wilks permanently would've been a good move. It wouldn't have been. Our ceiling would've been occasional 10-11 win season and playoff berth and getting run off the field by elite teams in the playoffs but with most seasons missing the playoffs. Better than what we've gotten under Tepper sure but still not what we should be striving for.

[Seltzer]

44 minutes ago, t96 said:

We were all sick of Rivera being unable to adapt in the modern NFL, why in the world would we stick with a guy in the exact same mold who is just a poor man's version of Rivera. Wilks is an awesome human being, loved having him here pretty much the entire time he was here. Great leader of men and secondary coach. Despite it leading to a HC opportunity I thought he was in over his head in his year as DC here, but he did do well as interim HC. He was just never going to be the long term guy here. His style is just too old school. I prefer that style of football, hard nose defensive oriented game with special teams and time of possession focus and ground and pound on offense. I wish it was still around. But the modern NFL has adapted and coaches need to adapt with it to have success and win. Belichick who despite being a cheater is one of the top 3-5 HCs ever and dude ran the pats into the ground lately because of this same thing -- the game has passed him by. Wilks too. Just because Tepper has made even worse decisions since then does not mean that hiring Wilks permanently would've been a good move. It wouldn't have been. Our ceiling would've been occasional 10-11 win season and playoff berth and getting run off the field by elite teams in the playoffs but with most seasons missing the playoffs. Better than what we've gotten under Tepper sure but still not what we should be striving for.

Agree 100%.  Given the chaos of the past few years, it has been easy to point to the idea of just keeping Wilks.  And I do think he did an admirable job during his time as interim head coach.

Still, I have to give Tepper credit for this... I think Canales is a good hire, not only as a head coach & culture builder, but as an innovative play caller.

He fits what modern NFL offenses need to do.  Running the ball will always be important. 

But as we saw with Bryce (and with most of our QBs/schemes over the past 6 years), if you can't throw the ball effectively (as well as challenge deep), you are not going to succeed as a top team.

Canales has not perfect (still questioning the lack of preseason playing time), but guys are getting schemed open in a way I can't remember since Dan Henning designed his offense around Smitty.

Canales is putting DJ & XL in positions to make catches.  The Oline is blasting open holes for the RB's more often than not.

For a team that has been the epitome of putrid on offense for more seasons than I care to remember, this has been a breath of fresh air!

[kungfoodude]

55 minutes ago, t96 said:

We were all sick of Rivera being unable to adapt in the modern NFL, why in the world would we stick with a guy in the exact same mold who is just a poor man's version of Rivera. Wilks is an awesome human being, loved having him here pretty much the entire time he was here. Great leader of men and secondary coach. Despite it leading to a HC opportunity I thought he was in over his head in his year as DC here, but he did do well as interim HC. He was just never going to be the long term guy here. His style is just too old school. I prefer that style of football, hard nose defensive oriented game with special teams and time of possession focus and ground and pound on offense. I wish it was still around. But the modern NFL has adapted and coaches need to adapt with it to have success and win. Belichick who despite being a cheater is one of the top 3-5 HCs ever and dude ran the pats into the ground lately because of this same thing -- the game has passed him by. Wilks too. Just because Tepper has made even worse decisions since then does not mean that hiring Wilks permanently would've been a good move. It wouldn't have been. Our ceiling would've been occasional 10-11 win season and playoff berth and getting run off the field by elite teams in the playoffs but with most seasons missing the playoffs. Better than what we've gotten under Tepper sure but still not what we should be striving for.

In fairness, I am pretty sure the poster in question is also one of the "Let's sign Cam!" guys too.

As if this makes that chapter of this franchise any less painful or would accomplish anything.

[Jay Roosevelt]

2 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Sir I don't know that.

 

With Wilks he was showing you signs of improvement. The problem with Darnold is he had Rhule as his HC. 

 

Once again it wasn't just Darnold who improved once they left. Baker also improved. We had a culture and coaching problem in Carolina. 

Well yes, we definitely had both a coaching and culture problem. But that doesn't mean Darnold would ever have worked out here. He never did a thing with the Jets either; if anything helped him turn it around it was spending a year as a backup in San Francisco and then going to another QB whisperer in Kevin O'Connell. The passing game under Wilks was barely functional and was only that because our running game was balling out at the time.

Having said that, I don't think this lasts for Darnold. I think he may play better than his first few years in the league from this point forward, but I think much of what we're seeing this year is scheme smoke and mirrors.As for Baker... well, you've got a better argument here. Still, he had previously shown plenty of flashes in Cleveland (won a playoff game) and needed a career reset. He may well have worked out with a better coaching staff here, but there were no indications of that at the time.

[CamWhoaaCam]

6 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

Well yes, we definitely had both a coaching and culture problem. But that doesn't mean Darnold would ever have worked out here. He never did a thing with the Jets either; if anything helped him turn it around it was spending a year as a backup in San Francisco and then going to another QB whisperer in Kevin O'Connell. The passing game under Wilks was barely functional and was only that because our running game was balling out at the time.

Having said that, I don't think this lasts for Darnold. I think he may play better than his first few years in the league from this point forward, but I think much of what we're seeing this year is scheme smoke and mirrors.As for Baker... well, you've got a better argument here. Still, he had previously shown plenty of flashes in Cleveland (won a playoff game) and needed a career reset. He may well have worked out with a better coaching staff here, but there were no indications of that at the time.

Darnold is legit bro. Jets/Panthers both had losing cultures when he arrived. Culture and HC matters for a QB.

 

This isn't a fluke Darnold is playing well. Minny hasn't been a bad franchise in a long time. They have a good environment for players.

[Seltzer]

5 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

Well yes, we definitely had both a coaching and culture problem. But that doesn't mean Darnold would ever have worked out here. He never did a thing with the Jets either; if anything helped him turn it around it was spending a year as a backup in San Francisco and then going to another QB whisperer in Kevin O'Connell. The passing game under Wilks was barely functional and was only that because our running game was balling out at the time.

Having said that, I don't think this lasts for Darnold. I think he may play better than his first few years in the league from this point forward, but I think much of what we're seeing this year is scheme smoke and mirrors.As for Baker... well, you've got a better argument here. Still, he had previously shown plenty of flashes in Cleveland (won a playoff game) and needed a career reset. He may well have worked out with a better coaching staff here, but there were no indications of that at the time.

Dalton made the playoffs 5 straight seasons.  He was the #6 rated passer in 2022 (at least by PFF).

Smokes & mirrors??? GTOH with that nonsense.  Dalton has always been a pretty good QB, and he's in a scheme now that obviously fits his strengths.

And now playing behind an elite Offensive line, Dalton has unlocked DJ & XL into looking like a legit starting WR combo.

He's 36 & still has plenty of tread left on the tires.  He is our QB, period, as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely nothing could be better for this franchise in the wake of Young's benching... and this is the best thing right now for BY9 also.

I've never seen more of a positive turn around in the perceived trajectory of this franchise than over the past 2 weeks.

I'm convinced there's a segment of this fanbase that has a pathological need for doom & gloom...

Why can we not just be happy & celebrate the fact that we finally have a good offense that we should be able to sustain with this Oline group under contract together (all of them through next year) and some beyond that.

Once we fix the defense, this will be the best team we've had post-Cam.

 

[kungfoodude]

28 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

Well yes, we definitely had both a coaching and culture problem. But that doesn't mean Darnold would ever have worked out here. He never did a thing with the Jets either; if anything helped him turn it around it was spending a year as a backup in San Francisco and then going to another QB whisperer in Kevin O'Connell. The passing game under Wilks was barely functional and was only that because our running game was balling out at the time.

Having said that, I don't think this lasts for Darnold. I think he may play better than his first few years in the league from this point forward, but I think much of what we're seeing this year is scheme smoke and mirrors.As for Baker... well, you've got a better argument here. Still, he had previously shown plenty of flashes in Cleveland (won a playoff game) and needed a career reset. He may well have worked out with a better coaching staff here, but there were no indications of that at the time.

Baker was never as bad as people said he was. That was 100% nonsense. He is a good Dalton comp. actually. 

He wasn't good here because our team was utter cancer. It wasn't possible to be successful in that nonsense.

[Waldo]

31 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

Dalton made the playoffs 5 straight seasons.  He was the #6 rated passer in 2022 (at least by PFF).

Smokes & mirrors??? GTOH with that nonsense.  Dalton has always been a pretty good QB, and he's in a scheme now that obviously fits his strengths.

And now playing behind an elite Offensive line, Dalton has unlocked DJ & XL into looking like a legit starting WR combo.

He's 36 & still has plenty of tread left on the tires.  He is our QB, period, as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely nothing could be better for this franchise in the wake of Young's benching... and this is the best thing right now for BY9 also.

I've never seen more of a positive turn around in the perceived trajectory of this franchise than over the past 2 weeks.

I'm convinced there's a segment of this fanbase that has a pathological need for doom & gloom...

Why can we not just be happy & celebrate the fact that we finally have a good offense that we should be able to sustain with this Oline group under contract together (all of them through next year) and some beyond that.

Once we fix the defense, this will be the best team we've had post-Cam.

 

He was talking about Darnold. 

 

13 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Baker was never as bad as people said he was. That was 100% nonsense. He is a good Dalton comp. actually. 

He wasn't good here because our team was utter cancer. It wasn't possible to be successful in that nonsense.

He was the 3rd QB in three years brought into a defunct system ran by Rhule who was in his 3rd year and should have been fired at the end of year 2. Everyone was pissed about the team being ran into the ground more than Baker from what I remember. Most of that was from people who had a favorite and ignored the reality of a team doing it's best Titanic impression.

Baker was never bad, his attitude was the main problem. 1 year of the Panthers took what air the Browns didn't out of him. He seems to be flourishing in Tampa but he is still a guy who has 1 good game and 1 meh game.

Edited October 3 by Waldo

[X-Clown]

5 hours ago, travisura said:

Lest we forget the "Protect the Bank" slogan rolled out before the game against the Steelers, only to be embarrassed by Mitch Trubisky of all people. 

There's some rose colored revisionist history going on here.

Or the game where the Bengals hung 35 on us in the first half. 

[travisura]

4 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

Or the game where the Bengals hung 35 on us in the first half. 

Love it when the game is over at halftime. Seems to be a hallmark of the past couple of seasons.

[CPF4LIFE]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Baker was never as bad as people said he was. That was 100% nonsense. He is a good Dalton comp. actually. 

He wasn't good here because our team was utter cancer. It wasn't possible to be successful in that nonsense.

The team was bad and baker was bad too. He never was good the moment he got here just like right before he left Cleveland. The guy was throwing balls in the dirt and just never had it clicking mentally. Whatever he went threw in Tampa when he got there must have really helped him out.

[strato]

Until Bryce came, Baker showed me some of the worst quarterbacking I had seen from the Panthers, I mean I am not even sure Grier was that bad. Clausen maybe, but he was really bad. 

His opening half against .. Cleveland (?) was nauseatingly bad.

 

edit: he had a better 2nd half I think but he was not good at all.

Edited October 3 by strato