Andy Dalton QB School week 3

[Newtcase]

JT likes drawing dicks.

[BrianS]

We shouldn't look at this from the perspective of "Can Dalton be our guy?"  That was never part of the equation.  This was simply an opportunity to see if the rest of the puzzle was coming together.  And we got an answer:  It is.

With even competent QB play, we look like we can compete.  Great.  Canales and his staff are pointing the ship in the right direction.

That's not going to fix everything.  Our defense is still nearly devoid of talent.  Our receivers not named Johnson or Theilen are still learning.

All we know at this point is that there is a glimmer of hope out there for us.  That beats the heck out of the Rhule era.

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, frankw said:

I mean in fairness you've been badmouthing Canales for weeks and you're talking about others swinging too hard one way. Just a smidge hypocritical no?

Anywho I think the majority of people know we are not "very good". But we are also by far not the worst team in the league or the least talented team in the league. We went on the road and showed that we can compete at a high level. That's all anyone has asked for.

To your point there is overall validity to it. We should take things with a grain of salt for the time being regarding our overall season outlook based off one win. But we also should give the coaches and the team a little grace to continue to build on this. We can be both complimentary and critical if needed when the time comes just as we always have.

I mean....we definitely are the least talented team in the league. To be clear, that isn't implying that we don't have talent. We just have substantially less of it than anyone else.

That's not a hard thing to really wrap your head around. Just fire up the last 4-5 offseasons worth of drafts and personnel moves. The evidence is all there. That is precisely how you end up with the least talent in the NFL.

Now, on the positive side, some of our past offseasons personnel moves appear to be working out pretty well. If we can get something out of the draft, as well, it's a possible first step in pulling up from this roster nosedive.

[CanadianCat]

11 hours ago, Jacabee said:

Appreciate these posts Jackie Lee as I've watched every one of these breakdowns since you started doing them about BY.

It's typically 17 minutes of solid analysis and then 2-3 where you wonder if Adam Thielen fuged his wife.

RIGHT!!!

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, frankw said:

I mean in fairness you've been badmouthing Canales for weeks and you're talking about others swinging too hard one way. Just a smidge hypocritical no?

Anywho I think the majority of people know we are not "very good". But we are also by far not the worst team in the league or the least talented team in the league. We went on the road and showed that we can compete at a high level. That's all anyone has asked for.

To your point there is overall validity to it. We should take things with a grain of salt for the time being regarding our overall season outlook based off one win. But we also should give the coaches and the team a little grace to continue to build on this. We can be both complimentary and critical if needed when the time comes just as we always have.

I bad mouthed how he handled Bryce and the preseason....  

said that was no way to get a bad young QB ready for the start of a season (given he didn't fit his O and all the stuff that has been thrown at Bryce).  And Bryce played his worst ball of his young career and was benched.  

I got no problem with Canales in a vacuum.  I've always said he had some good things to him.  I didn't like the marriage of what we were told we were getting coming into this season.   And I do think I was pretty much proven right.  It fit together horribly. 

Dalton is a much better fit.  I just don't think last Sunday is a good representation of what the Dalton Panthers will be is all.  Especially minus AT and inserting the rookies more heavily.  Plus, I think the D is closer to weeks 1-2 vs 3. 

In the end, all I care about is developing Mingo, XL, Saunders and eventually Brooks.  That's what this year is really about for me.  I think Andy makes that possible.  They should get them on the field as much as possible. 

[frankw]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean....we definitely are the least talented team in the league. To be clear, that isn't implying that we don't have talent. We just have substantially less of it than anyone else.

That's not a hard thing to really wrap your head around. Just fire up the last 4-5 offseasons worth of drafts and personnel moves. The evidence is all there. That is precisely how you end up with the least talent in the NFL.

Now, on the positive side, some of our past offseasons personnel moves appear to be working out pretty well. If we can get something out of the draft, as well, it's a possible first step in pulling up from this roster nosedive.

I think it's important to differentiate lack of culture from lack of talent.

Do we need more talent? On the defensive side clearly. As we took resources from that side of the ball to rebuild our offensive line. But that had to be done.

Saying we are not the least talented doesn't equate to saying we are suddenly a "good" team. It's simply an acknowledgement that even in our current state of rebuilding our roster especially on the defensive side we can still compete. To that end that is why we hired someone like Evero and why we've made it a point to retain his services.

There are 14 more games worth of ups and downs for us to explore I accept we will inevitably stumble again at some point all I ask for is to continue being competitive and shedding this loser mentality that has become pervasive within the franchise.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

I think it's important to differentiate lack of culture from lack of talent.

Do we need more talent? On the defensive side clearly. As we took resources from that side of the ball to rebuild our offensive line. But that had to be done.

Saying we are not the least talented doesn't equate to saying we are suddenly a "good" team. It's simply an acknowledgement that even in our current state of rebuilding our roster especially on the defensive side we can still compete. To that end that is why we hired someone like Evero and why we've made it a point to retain his services.

There are 14 more games worth of ups and downs for us to explore I accept we will inevitably stumble again at some point all I ask for is to continue being competitive and shedding this loser mentality that has become pervasive within the franchise.

We are largely lacking winning culture but the lack of talent is still a massive issue. To be clear, that doesn't mean we don't have good talent. Our starting OL, for instance, is quite talented. Now, once you get into the backups, that comes apart very quickly.

A prime example is the amount of bottom of the roster shuffle/dumpster diving we did prior to the season.  That isn't the sign of a healthy roster, it's the sign of one that REALLY has major problems with depth.

And....we definitely do. 

But, we have also had guys like The King of Pop step up in a major way, so it's not all a bag of dicks.

 

[frankw]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

I bad mouthed how he handled Bryce and the preseason....  

said that was no way to get a bad young QB ready for the start of a season (given he didn't fit his O and all the stuff that has been thrown at Bryce).  And Bryce played his worst ball of his young career and was benched.  

I got no problem with Canales in a vacuum.  I've always said he had some good things to him.  I didn't like the marriage of what we were told we were getting coming into this season.   And I do think I was pretty much proven right.  It fit together horribly. 

Dalton is a much better fit.  I just don't think last Sunday is a good representation of what the Dalton Panthers will be is all.  Especially minus AT and inserting the rookies more heavily.  Plus, I think the D is closer to weeks 1-2 vs 3. 

In the end, all I care about is developing Mingo, XL, Saunders and eventually Brooks.  That's what this year is really about for me.  I think Andy makes that possible.  They should get them on the field as much as possible. 

As far as Canales and preseason goes I think he already knew what was on the horizon with BY. He was looking at the same thing we were all through camp. When your #1 pick is throwing no look picks into double coverage in the middle of the field in camp and then just sinking his shoulders and walking away like he wants to be anywhere else there's nothing any coach can do for that. The team sees it too and from there that's a wrap.

I understand where you're coming from about his fit with BY. But for me I never looked at it from a perspective of he has to fix Bryce Young. I said all along come in see what you've got try to work with him and whatever happens we go from there. I've always said he needs to be given the opportunity to get and develop his own guy or guys until we identify the rookie he wants to develop.

I completely agree about the offensive development of our young core. That's my silver lining for this season. If we can successfully do that then I will feel pretty good heading into next season. Other than that my expectations are still low. Just give me some competitive football.

[frankw]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We are largely lacking winning culture but the lack of talent is still a massive issue. To be clear, that doesn't mean we don't have good talent. Our starting OL, for instance, is quite talented. Now, once you get into the backups, that comes apart very quickly.

A prime example is the amount of bottom of the roster shuffle/dumpster diving we did prior to the season.  That isn't the sign of a healthy roster, it's the sign of one that REALLY has major problems with depth.

And....we definitely do. 

But, we have also had guys like The King of Pop step up in a major way, so it's not all a bag of dicks.

 

I completely agree the bottom of the roster and depth is the opposite of ideal. This is where our new front office and coaching staff come in to play and we can begin to assess them as the season progresses. For me as a fan I just am tired of this hit dog mentality where we expect just because some unforseen event happens we should tumble down to the league doormat. No. Good teams across the league lose talent to different circumstances and still find ways to at least be somewhat competitive. That's because they have competent management and coaching. That's where I want to see the Panthers in time.

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, frankw said:

I completely agree the bottom of the roster and depth is the opposite of ideal. This is where our new front office and coaching staff come in to play and we can begin to assess them as the season progresses. For me as a fan I just am tired of this hit dog mentality where we expect just because some unforseen event happens we should tumble down to the league doormat. No. Good teams across the league lose talent to different circumstances and still find ways to at least be somewhat competitive. That's because they have competent management and coaching. That's where I want to see the Panthers in time.

Agreed. I don't care as much about losing the next couple of seasons as much as I do becoming competitive. That's not nothing.

 

[strato]

Canales had Bryce’s full rookie season film to evaluate. I think he knew exactly what he was dealing with. 
 

2.7, 1 of 11, we don’t need Bryce to be (forget the word) special but a few plays a game, and that footwork had to go.  

He couldn’t even get 1 of 11 from him. Let’s get him his QB, that’s what this is really about.