Frank Reich was right / Frank Reich was wrong

[thennek]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That still would have been better than what we ended up with, though.

How much better is debatable, but it's hard to say it could have been worse.

And they would still have DJ Moore, a 2023 first round pick, and all the other picks gone due to the trade. 

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Considering the Colts won 9 games last season while the Panthers won 2, I'd say he did.

Any coach we hired still would have had Tepper as owner, Young as quarterback, etc. etc.

So you really see anyone who could have succeeded in that scenario?

[Davidson Deac II]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

That still would have been better than what we ended up with, though.

How much better is debatable, but it's hard to say it could have been worse.

The question in this is did Reich really want Stroud?  If he did, and he had gotten Stroud, then I think he would still be our coach.  But all I have seen is supposition and conjecture, but if true and Tepper really did override Reich then all the bad things about Tepper are actually true.  I do hope the truth comes out eventually, as it would be interesting.  But I suppose it really doesn't matter at this point.  

[PantherKyle]

Reich wanted Young. It's been reported by Fowler. 

[jayboogieman]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Any coach we hired still would have had Tepper as owner, Young as quarterback, etc. etc.

So you really see anyone who could have succeeded in that scenario?

But you're assuming Tepper/Fit demanded Young and that some other coach wouldn't have demanded his choice of QB as part of his contract. Playing the what if game leads nowhere.

[strato]

Frank was right to want CJ Stroud. He was right to want to bench Young,

Young dictated the offense. I mean, customized offense this years is so limited in its execution by the QB that it looks almost the same as last year. The passing chart and all. 
 

I think getting fired is fighting and losing. I don’t think he could have fought hard enough to make a dent in the hard heads running the show. 

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, PantherKyle said:

Frank Reich is a bad HC. Was in Indy. And was here. Bryce is a bust. Both things can be true. Move on.

Not sold on the first point, at least not in the Xs and Os and the actual football stuff.

On the broader front, Reich probably needed to push back harder against both of his owners in some areas.

That's on him.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, PantherKyle said:

Reich wanted Young. It's been reported by Fowler. 

Schefter and others reported him wanting Stroud.

I think the whole truth is most likely that if Reich had final say, he'd have taken Stroud. For all intents and purposes though, Reich was third (maybe even fourth)  in the chain of command.

Reich also isn't a muckraker, so most likely when it became clear that the organization was going with Young, he went along, publicly said all the right things and just hoped for the best.

The full behind the scenes story will likely never be known because Reich isn't the type to tell all.

While I respect that, I know I'm not alone in wishing that he would.

[AU-panther]

How do we know Frank didn’t want Young? 

[Mr. Scot]

13 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

The question in this is did Reich really want Stroud?  If he did, and he had gotten Stroud, then I think he would still be our coach.  But all I have seen is supposition and conjecture, but if true and Tepper really did override Reich then all the bad things about Tepper are actually true.  I do hope the truth comes out eventually, as it would be interesting.  But I suppose it really doesn't matter at this point.  

I don't know that you necessarily have to involve Tepper.

It's pretty well known that Scott Fitterer wanted Young. And since he had final say on draft and roster decisions, yhat's who we were going to get unless Tepper stepped in and overruled him on Reich's behalf.

Based on the way Tepper talked about Young after their interview dinner, it's highly unlikely there was any chance of that happening.

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

But you're assuming Tepper/Fit demanded Young and that some other coach wouldn't have demanded his choice of QB as part of his contract. Playing the what if game leads nowhere.

See above...

Fitterer was thoroughly sold on Young and had final say. The only way for him not to be the choice was if Tepper overruled it, and there's zero indication that he was inclined to do so.

[Davidson Deac II]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't know that you necessarily have to involve Tepper.

It's pretty well known that Scott Fitterer wanted Young. And since he had final say on draft and roster decisions, yhat's who we were going to get unless Tepper stepped in and overruled him on Reich's behalf.

Based on the way Tepper talked about Young after their interview dinner, it's highly unlikely there was any chance of that happening.

Sorry, I have erased Fitterer from my memory. 

[PantherKyle]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Schefter and others reported him wanting Stroud.

I think the whole truth is most likely that if Reich had final say, he'd have taken Stroud. For all intents and purposes though, Reich was third (maybe even fourth)  in the chain of command.

Reich also isn't a muckraker, so most likely when it became clear that the organization was going with Young, he went along, publicly said all the right things and just hoped for the best.

The full behind the scenes story will likely never be known because Reich isn't the type to tell all.

While I respect that, I know I'm not alone in wishing that he would.

Send the link that Schefter said he wanted Stroud

[Mr. Scot]

19 minutes ago, thennek said:

And they would still have DJ Moore, a 2023 first round pick, and all the other picks gone due to the trade. 

Yep.

I feel like with everything that was happening, the 2023 Panthers we're going to be an absolute disaster.

You had Fitterer with full roster control (and per stories, a willingness to undermine his head coach in an effort to save his own ass) pretty much selling the farm to get Bryce Young, which put us where we are now.

Then throw in David Tepper, who has of last year still believed that his involvement in football operations was a positive. As of this year, he says that's over. We'll see.

So yeah, it was gonna be awful. The only question is which head coach would have taken the fall for it.