The Athletic/Diana Russini: What I'm Hearing - "Bryce is Done in Carolina"

[Jon Snow]

8 minutes ago, strato said:

I definitely agree with your scenario about Reich. I think it finally got to the point he wouldn’t play along. Because he knew. 
Matter of fact, Reich got the best out of him, such as it was. 

I'm starting to think Fitterer didn't allow Frank to bench Young.

[Martin]

52 minutes ago, pantherj said:

The worst case scenario is that Dan doesn't know what he's doing and we face several more years of disastrous failure. Hope and pray (or petition the universe if you're atheist) that Dan knows what he's doing as GM.

I have hope for Dan, I really liked what he did if FA and the draft this year

[Bear Hands]

Not responding to anyone specifically but—

I don’t see this as a super complicated scenario or something that happened too soon when we basically flipped this entire team for the kid. He somehow looked worse than last season after his first full offseason in the league.

And Canales had more than 2 games, he was here the entire offseason. If they’re even somewhat decent at what they do, they saw this well before the games. There were rumors and reports at camp with how the offense looked, so this isn’t really a surprise to the coaches. If we were having this trouble against our own defense at practice, then the players knew before the games hit too. 

And if Bryce is regressing and performing at, both statistically and eye-test, one of the worst rates in the modern era, everyone sees it. There’s no sugar coating the situation.

The players, coaches, ownership, fans ALL recognize it, nothing is changing, attitude isn’t changing, then yeah, bench him and be done with it. 

 

[rayzor]

I do think, barring some injury to Dalton and miraculous resurgence(?) by Bryce, Bryce is done here.

And I think also that the next QB will be essentially the polar opposite to Bryce....and Tepper will likely have some influence. What would the polar opposite look like? The guy they didn't take #1 overall....Stroud.

They are going to get someone with some size who may not be ......hmmmm....how can I put this......as conversationally appealing to someone like Tepper.

He went for an appealing personality to him, someone that was easier to connect to because that's what he thought was important for someone as the face of the franchise....and it was such a determining factor that it caused him to overlook some now obvious shortcomings that Bryce was not going to be able to overcome.

[strato]

Just now, Jon Snow said:

I'm starting to think Fitterer didn't allow Frank to bench Young.

Someone didn’t. Frank knew. He knew when Young came to Charlotte and he saw it without any spin, one on one. 

That is when Frank started with the hangdog look. 

[Martin]

15 minutes ago, rayzor said:

I honestly think it was a mutual, collective decision.

Canales might have been hired to be the Panthers head  coach because he was the best chance to get Bryce where he needed to be to succeed and did everything...I mean he and Morgan did EVERYTHING possible to create a successful situation for Bryce.

And it was obvious... painfully obvious that not only was it not working, the team was losing and it was effecting everything.

Canales was hired because they thought he could help Bryce, but he was hired as the PANTHERS head coach, not Bryce's personal coach.

If everyone could see this was failing far beyond what anyone could have and it didn't look like it was anything that could be fixed quickly....then that everyone who could see would have to include Canales himself who is responsible for not just Bryce, but the whole damn team has to have looked at what it was doing to the team and their chances to win and said, we have to choose what is best for Bryce or the Panthers.

He came in and said he had no personal attachment to any player, and that means he has no personal attachment to Bryce. He's going to do what is best to help the team win. If that means benching Bryce, then that's what he's going to do.

Did he make this call without Teppers blessing or input? Hell no. Did they come into the Monday meeting having both come to the same conclusion regarding Bryce? I would have a hard time arguing that wasn't the case.

All in leadership has to have seen it wasn't just not working...it was killing the team and they had to make this switch for the betterment of the team soon or else lose the season completely.

No way would Canales had bern campaigning for Bryce to stay in there. He's not that dumb.

Sometimes regardless of the work you do, you have to realize when it's futile and the earlier you recognize it, the better off you will be.

This 100%

[pantherj]

3 minutes ago, Martin said:

I have hope for Dan, I really liked what he did if FA and the draft this year

We'll know in the coming years if he's good or not, but I don't have any problem with the last draft. He didn't take the players I wanted, but he did some nice trade backs and appeared to get decent value. The key is the next QB we draft, and Dan will defer to Canales on that.

Edited September 21 by pantherj

[demcj]

i believe this was a canales decision with tepper following suit.

win/loss record aside...no reasonable first time head couch is going to sit back, lose the locker room, and allow their first season to look like complete trash. canales was brought in to fix young. so who better to tell tepper that this project is over than him. 

 

[KillerKat]

20 minutes ago, rayzor said:

I honestly think it was a mutual, collective decision.

Canales might have been hired to be the Panthers head  coach because he was the best chance to get Bryce where he needed to be to succeed and did everything...I mean he and Morgan did EVERYTHING possible to create a successful situation for Bryce.

And it was obvious... painfully obvious that not only was it not working, the team was losing and it was effecting everything.

Canales was hired because they thought he could help Bryce, but he was hired as the PANTHERS head coach, not Bryce's personal coach.

If everyone could see this was failing far beyond what anyone could have and it didn't look like it was anything that could be fixed quickly....then that everyone who could see would have to include Canales himself who is responsible for not just Bryce, but the whole damn team has to have looked at what it was doing to the team and their chances to win and said, we have to choose what is best for Bryce or the Panthers.

He came in and said he had no personal attachment to any player, and that means he has no personal attachment to Bryce. He's going to do what is best to help the team win. If that means benching Bryce, then that's what he's going to do.

Did he make this call without Teppers blessing or input? Hell no. Did they come into the Monday meeting having both come to the same conclusion regarding Bryce? I would have a hard time arguing that wasn't the case.

All in leadership has to have seen it wasn't just not working...it was killing the team and they had to make this switch for the betterment of the team soon or else lose the season completely.

No way would Canales had bern campaigning for Bryce to stay in there. He's not that dumb.

Sometimes regardless of the work you do, you have to realize when it's futile and the earlier you recognize it, the better off you will be.

Yeah and all the work they put in to make Bryce better, but then you hear Bryce didnt really do much in the offseason to improve himself and instead was playing video games when he shouldve been working with teammates, studying the playbook, anything. He shouldve been working almost 24/7 to become the franchise QB we drafted him for.  Instead, its like he just didnt care.

[Panthers Rhule]

8 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Not responding to anyone specifically but—

I don’t see this as a super complicated scenario or something that happened too soon when we basically flipped this entire team for the kid. He somehow looked worse than last season after his first full offseason in the league.

And Canales had more than 2 games, he was here the entire offseason. If they’re even somewhat decent at what they do, they saw this well before the games. There were rumors and reports at camp with how the offense looked, so this isn’t really a surprise to the coaches. If we were having this trouble against our own defense at practice, then the players knew before the games hit too. 

And if Bryce is regressing and performing at, both statistically and eye-test, one of the worst rates in the modern era, everyone sees it. There’s no sugar coating the situation.

The players, coaches, ownership, fans ALL recognize it, nothing is changing, attitude isn’t changing, then yeah, bench him and be done with it. 

 

I'm wondering if this isn't the real reason we didn't see him in preseason more. Were they hiding him? I remember something like Canales saying he was waiting for Dalton to return so they could evaluate the offense or something like that. 

 

Plus XL said Dalton was running with the ones already. There's more to this story than we know at the moment. 

Edited September 21 by Panthers Rhule

[strato]

2 minutes ago, Martin said:

I have hope for Dan, I really liked what he did if FA and the draft this year

I won’t say I loved it, for the reason that much of it seemed tailored to Bryce. But I understood it.
I certainly had no issue with drafting looking ahead vs immediate gratification. Lack of patience has really been a problem. 

Also I just never was able to believe that Bryce was going to end up being worth all that plus they were trashing the defense to get it done. 

[ForJimmy]

15 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Yep we have a HC who "develops QB's". I think we could get a sleeper QB in the later rounds. We are more than a QB away.

Houston has a high ceiling QB that could be developed. @MHS831 has been high on him. 

[csx]

I honestly dont care whos decision it was. 

I care that, regardless of how small, there at least is a glimmer of hope that we see any semblance of functioning offense going forward. Before we had zero hope and knew exactly what was going to happen.

[Joe Bear]

2 hours ago, Martin said:

I’m 100% aligned with his agent. Let’s get him traded.

No, because whoever makes a trade with the Panthers immediately becomes better and the Panthers get worse both in the short and long term. Don't take on $22 million in dead cap just to get another Stantley Thomas-Oliver.