In retrospect, maybe Canales knew

[FutureDynasty]

14 minutes ago, Manna said:

I think Canales also said yesterday in his presser that he wanted guys who loved football. 

I didn't know until yesterday that Bryce spent his offseason playing games and watching Netflix, and distancing himself from all-things football. That is a huge indicator of where his heart is. 

Especially after such a bad rookie season. If I'm being paid $9.8 million a year, I'm going to push myself to my limit, so I can set my grandchildren up for life.

[mrcompletely11]

25 minutes ago, ClawOn said:

I'm sure Canales put everything he could into coaching Bryce.  The issue was that Bryce was either incapable,  or unwilling,  to accept that coaching. 

hippity hop hop

[mrcompletely11]

7 minutes ago, Coheed said:

Not to say he was great last year (because he obviously wasn’t) but he’s most definitely regressed since last year.

 

the level of regression after improving the offense around him and bringing in a guy *specifically* to develop him is part of what makes it so, so bad. I don’t think anyone was anticipating a two game leash going into the season but his play regressed so much and so clearly that it necessitated it. 

 

you just said what I have been trying to say all morning

 

this entire thing just feels weird

[PNW_PantherMan]

9 minutes ago, Coheed said:

Not to say he was great last year (because he obviously wasn’t) but he’s most definitely regressed since last year.

 

the level of regression after improving the offense around him and bringing in a guy *specifically* to develop him is part of what makes it so, so bad. I don’t think anyone was anticipating a two game leash going into the season but his play regressed so much and so clearly that it necessitated it. 

 

[PleaseCutStewart]

47 minutes ago, Manna said:

When he was hired, Canales said he was excited to work with a number one overall pick. Maybe he forgot that Baker was #1 overall as well? But it sounded more like he was excited to work with Bryce. 

Once OTAs started he said that being new he wasn't emotionally tied to anyone and that he can make objective decisions.

During camp Morgan (and maybe Canales as well) stated that this was a big man's game when talking about the team.

Around the time of the second preseason game, Canales stated that he was hoping Dalton would be ready to play so that they can properly evaluate the guys. 

I think knowing that Bryce did not have the tools to succeed in his offense or NFL is what led to him not playing Bryce and "hiding" him until the third preseason game. 

The guy has an outside perspective on Bryce as an opponent. Then he gets to know Bryce as coach and QB. Somewhere along the way he realized that what he saw on tape and what he saw on the practice field day in and day out, that there was no progression, that Bryce had hit his ceiling. Like many of us fans, Canales wasn't basing his decision to bench Bryce off a 2-game performance. This was based on 18 games. 

 

Bryce may have the durability to take hits but his height matters. He didn't regress nor did he lose his confidence. We've seen the same Bryce since September 10th, 2023. 

 

I'd actually argue that we have seen a worse version of him from his first game last season...

[MHS831]

He is not a big man and he is not a dawg.  I agree with a lot of this and thank you for sharing thoughts based on real events and data.  I disagree, however, with your statement about confidence. I think he lost it last season, which is why he escaped to video games and Netflix (not sure to what degree or for how long, but the fact that he made that statement is not what a true dog would have stated).  Bryce is not an Alpha and he does not seem to love football, but I can't tell you what someone feels.  His body language, however, was telling.  Did anyone feel that the game was over when the Chargers scored first?  I did.

So maybe you are right in that Bryce's confidence is not the issue--it is the confidence the owner, coaches, locker room, and fans had in Bryce. 

I read an article --ESPN--that said the Panthers failed Bryce.  Nope--they brought in WRs through free agency and the draft.  They spent $150m on GUARDS.  Their LT is a first rounder and their RT is a solid, established vet who makes $30m per season.  Their RB played well during the two games.  So how is this failing Bryce? 

If Bryce were a boxer, you don't say, "They should have given him 6 rounds." You see when he has no chance of winning, when he is losing more than a match.  You throw in the towel at that moment.

Plummer had 3 games to prove himself...Had he not had a good preseason game, he would have been cut.  He stepped up.  He did not have the courtesy of 18 games and 18 months--he made mistakes in the preseason in game one (remember Smith's "waiting for an Uber" comment?) and he corrected his mistakes.  He is a dawg--does he have the skills?  Not yet, but you can develop a raw dawg. 

 

Edited September 17 by MHS831

[PNW_PantherMan]

I will just go ahead and say that I expect absolutely nothing out of Plummer.  He didn't look remotely decent until he was playing against guys that won't make the team on the Bills.  Remember how good Bryce looked playing against Bills backups?  Well Plummer had to wait until all those guys were out of the game until he got things going.  I would not hold my breath.  He is worse than Bryce and that's the reason he was selected to be on the team during camp.

[Manna]

21 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

He is not a big man and he is not a dawg.  I agree with a lot of this and thank you for sharing thoughts based on real events and data.  I disagree, however, with your statement about confidence. I think he lost it last season, which is why he escaped to video games and Netflix (not sure to what degree or for how long, but the fact that he made that statement is not what a true dog would have stated).  Bryce is not an Alpha and he does not seem to love football, but I can't tell you what someone feels.  His body language, however, was telling.  Did anyone feel that the game was over when the Chargers scored first?  I did.

So maybe you are right in that Bryce's confidence is not the issue--it is the confidence the owner, coaches, locker room, and fans had in Bryce. 

I read an article --ESPN--that said the Panthers failed Bryce.  Nope--they brought in WRs through free agency and the draft.  They spent $150m on GUARDS.  Their LT is a first rounder and their RT is a solid, established vet who makes $30m per season.  Their RB played well during the two games.  So how is this failing Bryce? 

If Bryce were a boxer, you don't say, "They should have given him 6 rounds." You see when he has no chance of winning, when he is losing more than a match.  You throw in the towel at that moment.

Plummer had 3 games to prove himself...Had he not had a good preseason game, he would have been cut.  He stepped up.  He did not have the courtesy of 18 games and 18 months--he made mistakes in the preseason in game one (remember Smith's "waiting for an Uber" comment?) and he corrected his mistakes.  He is a dawg--does he have the skills?  Not yet, but you can develop a raw dawg. 

 

Plummer showed more progress in 3 preseason games than I'd say Bryce ever shown throughout 18 games. I was ready to go all in on Bryce following the Green Bay Game, but he followed up that performance with a quick regression to the status quo. 

I agree that Morgan and Canales went out and addressed the biggest criticisms of Bryce's rookie year, that he had no WR and no O-line. They went out and did exactly that, yet Bryce remained the same and/or regressed from an already regressed state. 

I feel bad for Bryce the person, but I don't for the football player. I also feel the Dawg mentality Morgan preached was a shot at Bryce as well because, like you said, his nonverbal communication conveyed that he was there just to be there. 

 

[MHS831]

26 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

I will just go ahead and say that I expect absolutely nothing out of Plummer.  He didn't look remotely decent until he was playing against guys that won't make the team on the Bills.  Remember how good Bryce looked playing against Bills backups?  Well Plummer had to wait until all those guys were out of the game until he got things going.  I would not hold my breath.  He is worse than Bryce and that's the reason he was selected to be on the team during camp.

I agree to a point, but he showed "dawg."  He could have folded after the first preseason game, and undrafted rookie playing behind a 14-year vet and a former first overall pick--but he got better.   That is the point--his ceiling is lower, no doubt, but could he have been better than Bryce?  You can't throw him under the bus because the team he played against had their second team in the game--a complete pass is a completed pass.  And you can't say he was playing against scrubs when he was playing behind scrubs---but I would feel better about starting Plummer week three than Bryce.  Sometimes the unknown is more appealing than the known quantity.

 

[PNW_PantherMan]

Just now, MHS831 said:

I agree to a point, but he showed "dawg."  He could have folded after the first preseason game, and undrafted rookie playing behind a 14-year vet and a former first overall pick--but he got better.   That is the point--his ceiling is lower, no doubt, but could he have been better than Bryce?  You can't throw him under the bus because the team he played against had their second team in the game--a complete pass is a completed pass.  And you can't say he was playing against scrubs when he was playing behind scrubs---but I would feel better about starting Plummer week three than Bryce.  Sometimes the unknown is more appealing than the known quantity.

 

The notion that players will perform significantly better at higher levels of competition does not hold water.  Would you say that a QB that was no good in high school would be better in college?  Because he was throwing to high schoolers?  Its nonsense.  A good player playing in the 4th quarter of a preseason game will pop out like crazy.  Plummer has the size and the arm, but he is not any good.  That's all I'll say, because I'm almost certain we will see him get some real action towards the end of the year.  He will be exposed for what he is.  A camp arm.

[Johnstonny]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Anyone with eyes could see that Bryce wasn't it and I honestly think the seeming commitment to Bryce from Tepper combined with a seasoned coach getting fired mid-season largely because of the ineffectiveness of Bryce severely limited our candidate pool. The job was likely viewed as a career suicide mission by most. 

...If you ever followed the half mile of crumbs it always leads back to a big pile of Dipper sht....