Bryce got benched, but the problem is still the problem

[LinvilleGorge]

The problem is David Tepper. I'm completely completely convinced he's making the key football decisions. He runs the Panthers like Madden franchise mode toggling on and off the features he wants the AI (his actual football front office in this case) to handle while he handles the parts of the business he thinks is fun. High draft picks, key free agent signings, key re-signing, big trade deals, etc. That's where he probably steps in and makes the calls then he lets the football people deal with the day to day stuff of low low level FA signings, day three of the draft, low level afterthought trades, etc. I just can't be convinced that actual professional football people keep making such consistently awful decisions on their own accord.

[CRA]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The problem is David Tepper. I'm completely completely convinced he's making the key football decisions. He runs the Panthers like Madden franchise mode toggling on and off the features he wants the AI (his actual football front office in this case) to handle while he handles the parts of the business he thinks is fun. High draft picks, key free agent signings, key re-signing, big trade deals, etc. That's where he probably steps in and makes the calls then he lets the football people deal with the day to day stuff of low low level FA signings, day three of the draft, low level afterthought trades, etc. I just can't be convinced that actual professional football people keep making such consistently awful decisions on their own accord.

this.  Tepper is running the show.  And if you eliminate Bryce....it doesn't wipe out the mismanagement of the org that still exists.  Bryce is just 1 bad QB.  We got into this hole with better QBs.  Bryce being benched doesn't really alter much.  Because Bryce didn't get us here. 

Who got us here....is Tepper and the people hired at the top of this org.  And those faces haven't really changed much.  

[woahfraze]

Yep, pretty much. 
 

Bryce has proven that he isn’t the guy. But zooming out, it’s astounding how poorly the front office has operated over the last 4-5 years. They’ve drafted poorly, and where they’ve managed to identify good talent, they’ve ended up trading it away. And in the process of trading it away, through a combination of poor timing on their part and poor in the moment negotiating, managed to get a poor return for that talent. And because the drafting and free agency moves have not worked out, they’ve compounded the issues by trying to patch holes in the roster via trades where they have overpaid. I don’t think they could have done a worse job in all of the areas. I’m not sure you could do a worse job intentionally trying to be bad. It’s crazy. 
 

We can blame the coaches for not getting the most out of the talent in the roster. They are not blameless in all this. A better culture, some better scheming, some better development could have kept us from being quite so bad. But at the end of the day, this mess falls at the feet of Scott Fitterer. Such a shame Tepper kept Dan Morgan on, because he’s culpable for the mess too as Fitterer’s right hand man. 
 

And of course you’ve got the blame Tepper for making the wrong decisions on who to place in the GM and scouting roles. I’m not as big a believer that he’s interfering and overriding the front office people. There may be some of that. Regardless, he is responsible for hiring them, so he takes blame too. 
 

Just total top to bottom failure. 

[HardcoreHokie]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

this.  Tepper is running the show. 

Tepper literally told Johnathan Mingo on air that “I drafted you” because Steve Smith told me to.

Read that again out loud and then imagine being a scout on this team.

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I know that and you know that but to announce it after 2 games is fuging wild.   And for Canalas to basically come out and say it is fuging wild

Not really. The team sees more than we the fans see and what we the fans saw was god awful. I think the team was done with it and Dave could read the writing on the wall. These guys don't sacrifice their bodies and time with family to rah rah behind someone who obviously can't play the position at an NFL level with at least some level of competency. Dave didn't lose the locker room, Bryce did. Dave just publicly recognized it. 

[Doc Holiday]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

We mortgaged our future.  Traded away CMC, DJ Moore and gave up a ton of draft capital to draft Bryce Young #1 overall. Bryce Young got just 18 starts.  Essentially 1 season (plus a game).  And in that 1 season worth of play...Bryce Young got....

3 different HCs

3 different playcallers

2 different offensive systems

14 different starters on the OL

Bryce Young might of been a bad pick. We ensured we got the worst version possible. We basically set the whole thing on fire and now point the finger at him.  And there is a reason Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and basically everyone is performing a higher level elsewhere. 

The real problem in Carolina, is still in Carolina.  No point drafting any QB in the near future.  If you were to develop a plan to ruin a QB.....we are the textbook example. 

I’m tired of the defense of Bryce, you can make all the excuses for him that you want. But he’s been out right terrible this season, his very first pass that was intercepted was 100% on him, he had a clean pocket, plenty of time to throw and still threw an absolute turn of a pass. 
 

He hasn’t shown a damn thing while in the Panthers uniform, I don’t care about what he did in college, he is responsible for himself. He had excuses last year, this year there are none. He is the issue this year with the offense and that’s why he got benched. 

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Doc Holiday said:

I’m tired of the defense of Bryce, you can make all the excuses for him that you want. But he’s been out right terrible this season, his very first pass that was intercepted was 100% on him, he had a clean pocket, plenty of time to throw and still threw an absolute turn of a pass. 
 

He hasn’t shown a damn thing while in the Panthers uniform, I don’t care about what he did in college, he is responsible for himself. He had excuses last year, this year there are none. He is the issue this year with the offense and that’s why he got benched. 

I didn't make an excuse for Bryce.  I was calling for his benching before the season started.  I have been done with him.   Vocal. 

others just shouldn't be getting a pass for how bad they are.  Which is the cycle here.  I mean there was always a book of what not to do.....we got drunk and made an even worse version. That's not a Bryce excuse.  That's just acknowledging 2 things being true. 

I bash Joe Brady as bad.  Then everyone comes around to it but they then use Joe Brady to excuse all the wrongs that have nothing to do with him.  Because he was only a part of a much bigger problem.  Then people call me a Joe Brady lover.   I said Matt Rhule should of never seen a season 3.  Fired.  Then people agreed and called Fitterer good.  I said Fitterer was part of the problem and you can't use Rhule to deny the other massive issues.  Then I was a Rhule defender.   Then we fired fired Fitterer, I said Morgan had to go he was part of all those nightmare decisions.  Now people pretend Morgan was running counter to Fitterer but silently lol. 

There is no Bryce defense.  He sucks.  But the Panthers without Bryce....have tons of red flags and issues.  That shouldn't be dismissed in the name of Bryce being bad.  

[Johnstonny]

6 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Of course. Benching Young only fixed 1 of the many issues this team has. Everyone was so focused on him that everything else took a backseat. We haven't hit bottom yet.

This weeks game will tell a tale. You really can't objectively evaluate anyone being led by a Bryce offense. I hope ur wrong and I know you hope ur wrong. At least we are not trying to jam the the round peg in the square hole...

[CRA]

6 hours ago, CRA said:

We mortgaged our future.  Traded away CMC, DJ Moore and gave up a ton of draft capital to draft Bryce Young #1 overall. Bryce Young got just 18 starts.  Essentially 1 season (plus a game).  And in that 1 season worth of play...Bryce Young got....

3 different HCs

3 different playcallers

2 different offensive systems

14 different starters on the OL

Bryce Young might of been a bad pick. We ensured we got the worst version possible. We basically set the whole thing on fire and now point the finger at him.  And there is a reason Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and basically everyone is performing a higher level elsewhere. 

The real problem in Carolina, is still in Carolina.  No point drafting any QB in the near future.  If you were to develop a plan to ruin a QB.....we are the textbook example. 

then on top of that....

going into year 2 with a new OL, new WRs, new OC, new O, new playcaller......Canales doesn't let them rep in preseason to start figuring the whole thing out.  He gives them 1 series vs backups simply so he could showcase good vs getting his brand new of everything team ready for a season. 

Bryce is a bad QB.  But he isn't the only one who has clearly been bad at this job to open up this season.  Canales gets an F too.   

[amcoolio]

I think Dave and Dan are going to get a lot of time to get this fixed. Tepper is one of those people that is going to learn through trial and error. He's largely stayed out of it this offseason and season. Unfortunately these are the growing pains. I don't believe he is the MJ type of meddler that ruined the Hornets for 16 years. 

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

I think Dave and Dan are going to get a lot of time to get this fixed. Tepper is one of those people that is going to learn through trial and error. He's largely stayed out of it this offseason and season. Unfortunately these are the growing pains. I don't believe he is the MJ type of meddler that ruined the Hornets for 16 years. 

Tepper not holding pressers and being aware of the PR of things isn't him staying out of things.  He just benched Bryce.  There is no indication he has taken a step back.  Where was Canales Monday morning after the Saints game? Same place Frank Reich found himself. 

Dan has already devoted considerable time helping get us into this whole mess. 

Canales is just a  podium polished and better looking version of Matt Rhule.  He already looks like he is in over his head here. 

[amcoolio]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Tepper not holding pressers and being aware of the PR of things isn't him staying out of things.  He just benched Bryce.  There is no indication he has taken a step back.  Where was Canales Monday morning after the Saints game? Same place Frank Reich found himself. 

Dan has already devoted considerable time helping get us into this whole mess. 

Canales is just a  podium polished and better looking version of Matt Rhule.  He already looks like he is in over his head here. 

Um, I mean if you watch the All 22, we have receivers open every play, some wide open as heck, the O-line is blocking well, and Evero is in complete control of the defense. I think Bryce has been just that bad. Like a Malik Willis who can't even run or scramble. I'm giving Canales more than just 2 games of whatever the heck that was from Bryce, who has clearly lost all mental fortitude

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

Um, I mean if you watch the All 22, we have receivers open every play, some wide open as heck, the O-line is blocking well, and Evero is in complete control of the defense. I think Bryce has been just that bad. Like a Malik Willis who can't even run or scramble. I'm giving Canales more than just 2 games of whatever the heck that was from Bryce, who has clearly lost all mental fortitude

WRs being open vs a meh Chargers team....doesn't mean Tepper isn't being Tepper, doesn't mean Morgan didn't help get us here, or that Canales hasn't done a poor job entering the season w/ this team. 

why did we hire Canales? the only team that was interested in doing such.   He failed that about as bad as you possibly could.   So bad it made Frank look a little more competent in that aspect despite Canales having much better pieces.  The degree to which Bryce sucked to open up this season....you can't separate Canales from that. 

[amcoolio]

As it is with any coach, even Belichick, if you have literal crap at QB, you look terrible. The Pats looked terrible last year. I'm not a Tepper fan by any means, he has been the sole source of the problem since he bought the team, however I don't think he's an idiot who will continue to do this forever, nor do I think he made the decision to bench Bryce.

I also wasn't a fan of retaining Dan, but his additions have been decent so far and he's been aggressive in improving the back end of the roster.

I went to the game on Sunday, Canales would have to be an absolute moron to watch what happened, watch the other players reactions, etc. and then continue to stick with Bryce another week. Canales ain't dumb. He gave Bryce a chance because of his draft status, he was possibly the worst QB the NFL has seen since Nathan Peterman with no improvement whatsoever, so he pulled the plug because he wants to give the team a chance to win, as he should. I guess you can blame Canales for not "saving" Bryce, but some people are beyond saving. Bryce didn't care this offseason, doesn't care on the field, realized he doesn't have the ability to play QB, and is mentally broken to the point he won't throw it to wide open receivers.

If Carolina is 0-5 and still getting blown out every week, then yes I will agree with you on Canales. Literally no coach would win with Bryce.