"It's a philosophy": How Bryce Young has adapted 2.7 seconds to his game

[strato]

31 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

The whole "our o-line/WRs/coaches were actually good last year" Revisionism World Tour some of y'all are going on recently, is a level of sunshine and rainbows that would make even Bryce apologists blush.  You would think we had a talented playoff-caliber team whose success was thwarted single-handedly by Bryce.  Yet ironically those of you who recently want to downplay our o-line/WR/coaching struggles last year are the same people who argue we have the worst, least talented roster in the NFL...so which is it?

Simply put: do you agree that o-line/WR/coaching last year were net negatives?  If so, then this petty squabbling about whether they were worst or bottom five or bottom ten is a silly distraction.  The position of the fans you're referring to is simply that every facet of our offense was a mess (including Bryce) and that it was such a dysfunctional symphony of a dumpster fire that it's hard to apportion what percentage of blame goes where, and that this season will largely clear that debate up.  Which is basically exactly what @Icege outlined above.  Can you articulate why you find that position to be unreasonable?

Bro, placing them in the light that 'the OL was solely responsible' is about like saying they were not responsible at all. Maybe not that far but you get the point. Neither is accurate.

When I see the stats of how much time there was to throw listed (which has been posted somewhere), they don't indicate a jailbreak on every single down. Same as there wasn't a ton of time on every single down.

There was time, at times. (edit: and there were open targets not seen or the ball was held and not thrown in that window).

If people don't or won't consider those plays in the sum of it all, that's their prerogative. Doesn't mean those things never happened. 

 

edit

Edited September 4 by strato

[ForJimmy]

23 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

[Navy_football]

Yeah I don't think the guy is as bad as some are arguing. Is the deep ball his strength? No. Is it a glaring weakness? I don't think so. 

Deep passes that aren't called take more than just a strong armed QB. That helps, but you also need a WR that can burn a defense and/or "Moss" a DB. That WR wasn't present last season. Not sure we have that this season either, but we do have a route runner that can create separation and catch the ball. We also appear to have a playcaller that will take shots early. The second pass of the preseason game, DC dialed up a deep pass to DJ that forced the safety to help, opening up the underneath pass to JT. That's about all we can hope for from deep passes right now. At least until we have a WR that can run past or jump over the coverage. Legette is the only player that may have both in his bag but he's unproven. Coker has an insane vertical and showed it in college too, so may have a chance with him as a jump ball guy. As far as Bryce goes, he has to throw the ball when the opportunity is there. That's the biggest issue I had with him last season. Maybe he didn't trust his receivers. Maybe he didn't trust his oline. Maybe he didn't trust the playcall. He doesn't have those excuses this year, so I expect him to take more deep shots, particularly when the defense creeps up. If he doesn't, then we'll have a problem. 

 

[frankw]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

If I may approach the bench...

The whole roster was bad and is still bottom tier.  Look no further than exhibit A- Baker Mayfield.  On the Panthers he was downright unwatchable.  Gets traded to the Rams and instantly looks better without knowing the whole playbook, get an offseason with the Bucs and boom playoff win. Oh and he had DJ Moore plus a CMC briefly... 

No further questions your honor. 

In terms of situationally when looking at the roster and coaching around them here yes they compare but when you look at everything else it doesn't jive. Baker always had adequate arm strength and a good deep ball going back to college. The prerequisite physical strengths necessary were never in doubt.

But even with Baker he still has to shake the one year wonder label like he had with Cleveland. He has to take the next step this season too.

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, frankw said:

In terms of situationally when looking at the roster and coaching around them here yes they compare but when you look at everything else it doesn't jive. Baker always had adequate arm strength and a good deep ball going back to college. The prerequisite physical strengths necessary were never in doubt.

But even with Baker he still has to shake the one year wonder label like he had with Cleveland. He has to take the next step this season too.

I’m talking about a QB on a roster that immediately looked better once he left and even better the next year he was away. My point was the offensive roster was bad. He even had Moore and half a CMC. I’m not comparing Baker directly to Bryce. Just using him to show how bad our whole situation was. 

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, strato said:

Bro, placing them in the light that 'the OL was solely responsible' is about like saying they were not responsible at all. Maybe not that far but you get the point. Neither is accurate.

When I see the stats of how much time there was to throw listed (which has been posted somewhere), they don't indicate a jailbreak on every single down. Same as there wasn't a ton of time on every single down.

There was time, at times. (edit: and there were open targets not seen or the ball was held and not thrown in that window).

If people don't or won't consider those plays in the sum of it all, that's their prerogative. Doesn't mean those things never happened. 

 

edit

I'm sorry but this is just such a confusing response to what I posted.  Who are you trying to convince that Bryce was part of the problem?  I don't think I could have made it any more clear in my post that I acknowledge he was.  I actually explicitly stated my position and asked the other guy to express what was unreasonable about it, so I'll ask you the same.

[frankw]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I’m talking about a QB on a roster that immediately looked better once he left and even better the next year he was away. My point was the offensive roster was bad. He even had Moore and half a CMC. I’m not comparing Baker directly to Bryce. Just using him to show how bad our whole situation was. 

Bad roster bad coaching. It's been one mess to another for this team. I don't think anyone will disagree with these things.

But then you have Sam Darnold who had both CMC and Moore and still stunk. Coaching wise he wasn't getting any favors either having had Adam Gase and Matt Rhule to work with consecutively. That's pretty rough. Then he finally got the chance to work with someone who is amongst the best in the league like Kyle Shanahan and even he gave up.

Sometimes you just have to admit that a guy is simply not good enough to be a starter regardless of circumstances. Unfortunately it isn't a one size fits all.

Luckily we are only 4 days away from having some kind of answer to our quandary.

[ForJimmy]

7 minutes ago, frankw said:

Bad roster bad coaching. It's been one mess to another for this team. I don't think anyone will disagree with these things.

But then you have Sam Darnold who had both CMC and Moore and still stunk. Coaching wise he wasn't getting any favors either having had Adam Gase and Matt Rhule to work with consecutively. That's pretty rough. Then he finally got the chance to work with someone who is amongst the best in the league like Kyle Shanahan and even he gave up.

Sometimes you just have to admit that a guy is simply not good enough to be a starter regardless of circumstances. Unfortunately it isn't a one size fits all.

Luckily we are only 4 days away from having some kind of answer to our quandary.

Yeah I don’t believe I mentioned a guy being good enough. I’m just saying our supporting cast for our offense was bad. That doesn’t automatically make our QB good, just lets you know he wasn’t working with much. I just used Baker on 2 different teams to highlight how bad it was. The topic I was arguing centered around people trying to prop up our offense and blame it ALL on the QB. He was part of the issue no doubt, but he wasn’t working with much.

Sounds like we both agree. The whole offense was bad. Now we can sit back and enjoy the show and see what direction we are going. 

[Basbear]

I think Dave stole/used the 2.7 seconds from coaching legend Tom Moore. 
 

 

Edited September 4 by Basbear

[strato]

58 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I'm sorry but this is just such a confusing response to what I posted.  Who are you trying to convince that Bryce was part of the problem?  I don't think I could have made it any more clear in my post that I acknowledge he was.  I actually explicitly stated my position and asked the other guy to express what was unreasonable about it, so I'll ask you the same.

Did I miss something? The whole first paragraph basically is barbed. Sarcastic. Whatever the word is.

Quote

The whole "our o-line/WRs/coaches were actually good last year" Revisionism World Tour some of y'all are going on recently, is a level of sunshine and rainbows that would make even Bryce apologists blush.  You would think we had a talented playoff-caliber team whose success was thwarted single-handedly by Bryce.  Yet ironically those of you who recently want to downplay our o-line/WR/coaching struggles last year are the same people who argue we have the worst, least talented roster in the NFL...so which is it?

I have never once made that roster argument, fwiw. Lumped in though by comments in your post. 

[Gapanthersfan]

One of the aspects of the deep ball that is missing from the conversation is… what does his deep throw look like. Does he need to release at a 40 degree trajectory to hit the mark when most other QBs can make it happen at 30 degrees with the same target yardage? I’m 100% sure Bryce can throw the ball 40 yards in the air, but is it the type of throw he can make when the receiver only has 2 steps on a speedy db. 

My hope is that his improved mechanics show up in the speed of his throws. It’s the threat of the deep ball, yes, but it’s really the threat of a good deep ball that matters. Do his throws draw double coverage past 30 yards or is the safety free to roam? 

He doesn’t have to have a cannon, but it has to show a lot better than last season. 

[strato]

48 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

One of the aspects of the deep ball that is missing from the conversation is… what does his deep throw look like. Does he need to release at a 40 degree trajectory to hit the mark when most other QBs can make it happen at 30 degrees with the same target yardage? I’m 100% sure Bryce can throw the ball 40 yards in the air, but is it the type of throw he can make when the receiver only has 2 steps on a speedy db. 

My hope is that his improved mechanics show up in the speed of his throws. It’s the threat of the deep ball, yes, but it’s really the threat of a good deep ball that matters. Do his throws draw double coverage past 30 yards or is the safety free to roam? 

He doesn’t have to have a cannon, but it has to show a lot better than last season. 

It is supposed to work that way. The little that we saw looked better.

I think if he can throw it high and deep enough, I'd say that's what XL is for. Double coverage, schmouble coverage, just throw it up there. 

I think I'd want a centerfielder that can flag one down too, deep-ish, defending that.

 

Edited September 4 by strato

[mc52beast]

10 hours ago, PootieNunu said:

Nobody is asking for 30 yard bombs on a regular basis, but it has to at least be an option or the Defenses are just going to load the box again like they did last season and dare Bryce to complete anything. 

IF he still cant complete any deep shots look for 10 in the box and Canales running mentality is going to be shot to hell. 

Yeh, like they did when they knew Cam couldn’t throw farther than ten yards.

[TD alt]

11 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Closing arguments are now over for both the defense and the prosecution.  The jury will return with a verdict on Sunday.

I was just getting ready to say, "Sunday can't come fast enough," but your response was more creative.