Art Stapleton (NY media) Jaycee Horn possible trade candidate

[electro's horse]

I think this guy is just connecting dots but I don’t hate this in theory. 
 

youre out of your mind if you think horn is worth a first. Best ability is availability. 

[Gapanthersfan]

I guess I can see both sides. This is a contract year for arguably a top 5 corner in the league talent wise. He knows it is a contract year. He will find a way to play every game. Believe that.

 ‘Injury’ could end up costing him million$$$$ of missed money on his next contract. 4 games out this season could easily be a $10 million knock on his next deal, wherever it is. 

So: he is going to play every game. Believe that. He is very capable of having a 7+ pick season. He plays physical and isn’t afraid of stopping the run. 

The pump is primed to be another ‘what the hell do we do now’ type situation. This team CAN’T pay what he will command WHEN the situation unfolds this way. 

 

Edited August 20 by Gapanthersfan

[UNCrules2187]

10 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

I guess I can see both sides. This is a contract year for arguably a top 5 corner in the league talent wise. He knows it is a contract year. He will find a way to play every game. Believe that.

 ‘Injury’ could end up costing him million$$$$ of missed money on his next contract. 4 games out this season could easily be a $10 million knock on his next deal, wherever it is. 

So: he is going to play every game. Believe that. He is very capable of having a 7+ pick season. He plays physical and isn’t afraid of stopping the run. 

The pump is primed to be another ‘what the hell do we do now’ type situation. This team CAN’T pay what he will command WHEN the situation unfolds this way. 

 

If this happens (he plays every game, has 5-7 INTs, is generally the shutdown corner the team envisioned him being when they drafted him) and he asks to be paid like the top CB in the league, the solution is easy - franchise him and make him prove it again.

edit: actually they picked up his option so he's under contract next year anyway. Make him prove this season isn't a fluke before giving him a LT deal.

Edited August 20 by UNCrules2187

[KingKucci]

Why not?  We trade all of our top talent for peanuts anyways.

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

The value is low now. His stock won't get much of a hit from injuries anymore because he is already firmly in that category anyway.

A player not yet injured has to be worth more than a player dealing with an injury even if they have the history. Seems like the discount would increase in that situation unless he was healthy and I wouldn't take that bet. 

[Camp Fodder]

The way this team drafts?  Just keep him

[Waldo]

15 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

I guess I can see both sides. This is a contract year for arguably a top 5 corner in the league talent wise. He knows it is a contract year. He will find a way to play every game. Believe that.

 ‘Injury’ could end up costing him million$$$$ of missed money on his next contract. 4 games out this season could easily be a $10 million knock on his next deal, wherever it is. 

So: he is going to play every game. Believe that. He is very capable of having a 7+ pick season. He plays physical and isn’t afraid of stopping the run. 

The pump is primed to be another ‘what the hell do we do now’ type situation. This team CAN’T pay what he will command WHEN the situation unfolds this way. 

 

I'm not convinced he is willing to take the injury prone discount. Top 5 CB but at 45% of the price because that's his availability sounds like a fan thing and not a player thing to me. CMC was ran into the ground by inept coaching and team management desperation so him going to SF was a perfect situation for him and he still gets banged up there with great coaching. Horn has only played 8 straight games 1 time and the next longest streak was 5 games. 

I do wonder if the team has any idea what he wants in a 2nd contract because that should be huge in deciding this kind of potential move. 

[Panthering]

hell naw keep him he's a dawg

[Gapanthersfan]

To me it all seems so eerily similar to Mccaffery. NFL pedigree. Top 5 talent. Neither Eddie nor Joe seemed stoked when their boys were picked to come here. Both dads know the business side of the NFL.

When Christian played, he played hard. Likewise, Horn. Say what you will about his injury issues, he plays hard…. When he plays. 

There are so many possible ways this could go, all having their risk:reward. The longer he plays, the higher chance of another significant injury. 

1. Trade soon: I could see a contender giving up a mid to high 1st rounder + a 4th because he can truly be that dude that puts a team over the hump. 

2. Trade after a few games in: If he balls out, defensive player of the week type of play… if a first and a second or first/second and a young blue chip lineman, or something of similar value comes up, you have to take that trade. When was the last time anyone could say Horn had a bad day? Exactly. He doesn’t. Every healthy game his value will rise. 

3. pick up his option: I forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder. I don’t like this. I see him as being a possible holdout. There is no love lost between Joe Horn and the Panthers. 

Many other possibilities still but those are the few that have come to mind. 

To me, the issue is value. Horn is a baller, but this team is still 2 years minimum from competing. Unless Young is completely reborn, we’re looking for a qb next season. Next season with a new QB… likely not a playoff team. By the time this team could theoretically compete, does anyone want a Horn that has 2 more years on the odometer and that we dished another stupid contract out to.  

This team needs QB, D line, O line and linebackers. Everything else is pretty straight, for now. We need core.  We need early pick linemen. 

I love Horn’s game and attitude. He’s not a complainer. You’ve got to get good value for him when you can. It’s just gauging when that point is. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Waldo said:

A player not yet injured has to be worth more than a player dealing with an injury even if they have the history. Seems like the discount would increase in that situation unless he was healthy and I wouldn't take that bet. 

It's pretty much splitting hairs because 8 or so games of "being healthy" isn't going to change his injury prone label. A couple of seasons of being healthy would.

[strato]

If he has the 5th year option in place I’d prefer to gamble that he raises his value with a good season rather than do something now. 

If you are going to do something.

Okay we know absolutely tha every guy is not Thomas Davis but Thomas missed a ton of time and when he got straight he stayed pretty healthy and was a valuable player. I can’t name names but there are surely other examples of missing time on the front end of a good career...

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, strato said:

If he has the 5th year option in place I’d prefer to gamble that he raises his value with a good season rather than do something now. 

If you are going to do something.

Okay we know absolutely tha every guy is not Thomas Davis but Thomas missed a ton of time and when he got straight he stayed pretty healthy and was a valuable player. I can’t name names but there are surely other examples of missing time on the front end of a good career...

Really the reasons to trade him are basically that you don't think he will be healthy again, you get a great offer or he basically wants too much money. Outside of that, there is no urgency to doing this.

Especially since it is extremely likely we would squander whatever picks we get.

Look at the insane haul we got for CMC. Probably the most you will see a RB get in the next decade in terms of trade value. But, didn't matter because we promptly turned those picks over to complete idiots.

That's another reason I don't really care to accumulate any more picks by trading players unless we just don't have any other option. Until we prove that we have an even slightly below average NFL FO, what exactly is the point?

[strato]

Feel that way too. Why the slow play gamble.

[Wundrbread33]

For the love of god we need to stop giving away the draft picks we hit on. 
 

Yeah I know…injury history. That’s a variable that is always out of anyone control. 
 

Don’t care honestly. We successfully drafted an extremely talented football player. It’s difficult to hit on draft picks, and he is a stud. 
 

I’m tired of being a farm team.