Experience with Electric Vehicles?

[toldozer]

1 hour ago, PanthersATL said:

2020-2022 were weird years for used car sales. I wouldn't put too much faith in that being a trend

Have heard that insurers are more likely to total a Tesla rather than try to repair it (even if the issue is a single widget), which doesn't bode well for a resale market

Yeah I think that was about a 6-9 month window on the immediate resale of teslas. Anyone that could put 10-15k in their pocket should have done it. When I was changing to a commission only job in 2021 my wife and I traded in cars that we bought tail end of 2019, lowered our monthly payments and loan terms, significantly lowered our interest rates and put 10k in the bank by purchasing 2 brand new cars. The dealership paid 32k for my wife's 2019 traverse and sold her the exact same 2021 model for 30k we just had to wait a week for it to come in to the dealer. Made no sense

Edited August 20 by toldozer

[d-dave]

21 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Sure but that gas will show in your light bill from charging the thing at home. Tires also wear out faster than normal gas cars.

From commercial chargers: $10-$30 from 10-80% (https://www.investopedia.com/cost-to-charge-ev-road-trip-5219817#:~:text=The average cost of charging,is between %2410 and %2430.)

It makes sense that your electrical bill will go up, but you also won't be buying gas or getting your oil changed.  I have done some math:

I drive about 350 miles per week.  Sometimes less, sometimes more, but that's my average.  I fill up my car about once a week for $35-$40 a tank (currently, as the price of oil rises...).  So in a given four week month I pay $150ish a month for gas.  On a month to month basis, at $0.17/kW from Duke, and given a 70kW battery, the EV would be much cheaper.

The flip side, as @rayzor points out, is that EVs are MUCH more expensive than a traditional ICE car.  There are some cool extra benefits to the EVs in style and ride noise, but it's still a LOT of money to pass around.  Eight years to pay the difference back is the warranty on an EV battery.

You are 100% correct about the tires though.  Carrying over 1,000 pounds more than a conventional car in some cases will put considerably more pressure and wear the tires down.  Having access to all the engine torque immediately will eat them up as well (if you can't control your foot).

It's funny, none of us actually own an electric car.  Yet here we are

I want to see more infrastructure built out, and I'm curious to see how the new battery technology changes things.  Tesla has developed a dry cell battery, which could cut the battery cost by 20-30%.  Samsung is developing Solid State Batteries that could get us over 500+ miles per charge in the current weight/sizes.

I salute all the early adopters!  Thank you for burning your cash for a better future

[rayzor]

1 hour ago, d-dave said:

I salute all the early adopters!  Thank you for burning your cash for a better future

seconded this....i think it's a great idea.

to get to a point where it's more financially manageable and the infrastructure gets put in place and kinks get worked out, we're going to have to depend on either the most ecologically zealous, the rich, or the posers who want to go into massive debt to give the appearance that they are rich or really care.

[PanthersATL]

2 hours ago, d-dave said:

I'm curious to see how the new battery technology changes things.  Tesla has developed a dry cell battery, which could cut the battery cost by 20-30%.  Samsung is developing Solid State Batteries that could get us over 500+ miles per charge in the current weight/sizes.

 

Battery technology may change, but the physics behind how batteries work will always be a restriction that can't be overcome. (in other words, Tesla or Samsung isn't going to invent anything new that will be a breakthrough in battery tech)

There are hybrids on the road today still running with the same battery after 20 years, partly because they're not running on battery 100% of the time.  I doubt the same length of time wil be true for Teslas (or other EVs), which is why the next Big Thing for EV manufacturers shouldn't be inventing a new battery, but figuring out how to revitalize/reuse batteries as EVs become unpowered

[PanthersATL]

An article from  a few years ago talking about EVs and battery life/replacement costs:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39687/teslas-early-vehicles-are-becoming-a-study-on-ev-battery-longevity 

[Cullenator]

Its anecdotal of course but before I moved out of CO there seemed to be a spate of EVs in garages catching fire and burning the house down.

 

I don't see anything on a couple of web searches saying its a widespread problem but those kinds of things stick in my head and make me leery of buying one just yet.

[jayboogieman]

27 minutes ago, Cullenator said:

Its anecdotal of course but before I moved out of CO there seemed to be a spate of EVs in garages catching fire and burning the house down.

 

I don't see anything on a couple of web searches saying its a widespread problem but those kinds of things stick in my head and make me leery of buying one just yet.

Haven't seen much about fires happening, but it does happen though not as often as gas powered cars.

Here's a couple of articles. 1, 2. And here's one about cellphone batteries exploding/catching fire.

[d-dave]

2 hours ago, PanthersATL said:

An article from  a few years ago talking about EVs and battery life/replacement costs:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39687/teslas-early-vehicles-are-becoming-a-study-on-ev-battery-longevity 

Interesting, I just watched this the other day:

Though I will say the video maker is VERY pro Tesla (and an owner).  It's going to be interesting to see how well all the EVs handle years 8-20.  

Though this gets to the other side of things: if EVs have fewer moving parts and (outside of the battery) less failure points, what's to stop people from holding on to their EVs for longer than they are their ICE cars?  There's still a lot on the horizon.  Can car companies shrink while still advancing because of market saturation?

Ahh, late stage capitalism!

[Cullenator]

1 hour ago, jayboogieman said:

Haven't seen much about fires happening, but it does happen though not as often as gas powered cars.

Here's a couple of articles. 1, 2. And here's one about cellphone batteries exploding/catching fire.

That's why I acknowledge its an anecdotal take.

 

But for me its a concern I cant really shake.  I generally don't trust rechargeable batteries and the more stories I see about exploding hoverboards, vapes, cell phones, and cars the worse my confirmation bias gets.

 

and before you ask, no I dont charge my phone or laptop overnight

 

Its definitely a me thing

[jayboogieman]

4 minutes ago, Cullenator said:

That's why I acknowledge its an anecdotal take.

 

But for me its a concern I cant really shake.  I generally don't trust rechargeable batteries and the more stories I see about exploding hoverboards, vapes, cell phones, and cars the worse my confirmation bias gets.

 

and before you ask, no I dont charge my phone or laptop overnight

 

Its definitely a me thing

Not just you. I rarely charge my devices overnight as well. Usually it happens because I fell asleep watching TV.

Back to the EVs. There's been several stories of Teslas catching fire or exploding I've seen over the years. I think the Chevy Volt had similar stories a couple of years ago too.

[d-dave]

18 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Not just you. I rarely charge my devices overnight as well. Usually it happens because I fell asleep watching TV.

Back to the EVs. There's been several stories of Teslas catching fire or exploding I've seen over the years. I think the Chevy Volt had similar stories a couple of years ago too.

Yep, it seems like everything can blow up and catch fire.  

Scary story: the other day on the way to work, I got the slow down on 485 where an older Toyota Camery has caught fire.  Hoses and belts were burning on the road, smoke everywhere (from the coolant - I blew a hose once...), it was insane.

Y'all must think I'm crazy because I charge my phone overnight.  I have for years with no real issues.  Though I have been using wireless chargers for the last....a long time...  Yep, I'm super crazy!

[Cullenator]

18 minutes ago, d-dave said:

Yep, it seems like everything can blow up and catch fire.  

Scary story: the other day on the way to work, I got the slow down on 485 where an older Toyota Camery has caught fire.  Hoses and belts were burning on the road, smoke everywhere (from the coolant - I blew a hose once...), it was insane.

Y'all must think I'm crazy because I charge my phone overnight.  I have for years with no real issues.  Though I have been using wireless chargers for the last....a long time...  Yep, I'm super crazy!

Sorry...

I wasnt trying to derail the thread.  I was just chiming in with a concern I personally have based on completely anecdotal information.

 

 

You noted earlier about the difference in the chargers and their requirements.  Im sure my concern is probably rooted in guys who thought they could wire up a 220 after watching a youtube video and didnt have a pro come out and do it.

[kass]

The same anecdotal talking point is floating around here but the official stats from Sweden and Norway + from insurance companies are very clear. EVs are significantly less likely to catch fire, it shouldn't be a concern at all. 

Not sure the info is available in English on any trustworthy site, but the stats are so clear, I wont bother provide any translation or sources. This is not even worth talking about.

[d-dave]

1 hour ago, kass said:

The same anecdotal talking point is floating around here but the official stats from Sweden and Norway + from insurance companies are very clear. EVs are significantly less likely to catch fire, it shouldn't be a concern at all. 

Not sure the info is available in English on any trustworthy site, but the stats are so clear, I wont bother provide any translation or sources. This is not even worth talking about.

I'm sure a lot of the online stuff either stems from people trying to DIY high voltage circuits (not recommended!), or viral bias from an interesting story they heard about online.

I mean, in my gas car, I keep 13 or so gallons (49L) of fuel under pressure (vapor pressure from the volatile nature of gasoline), with a TON of mini explosions in high compression cylinders in an engine that gets to hundreds of degrees in temperature (no matter your thermometer), and that's safe compared to a Samsung battery!!?!

Boat load of sarcasm for anyone who hasn't had enough coffee or caffeine before reading

And @Cullenator, you know I've got thick skin =P  I've spent far too much time in the Tinderbox!

Getting politics adjacent (oh boy!), the USA needs to step up our Green Energy subsidies and investment.  "China's flooding the market with cheap solar" or "China's flooding the market with affordable EVs" are both statements of how much cash the CCP is subsidizing the future.  Either the West finds a way to invest more and smarter in electric vehicles, batteries, and solar systems; OR we have to deal with whatever the Chinese want to sell us, losing any economic advantage there.

Oh boy, hopefully I didn't derail my own thread to the TB!!!

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-kia-ev6-wind-awd-yearlong-review-verdict/

Back on topic, this is an interesting, year long, 20k miles, take on the Kia EV6 AWD.  So back on topic!  The systems of importance (battery/charging) seemed to have held up well.  The only problems are Kia problems (craftmanship of steering wheel/lights).

That's encouraging.  Seems that a lot of EVs in the US are tending to hold up pretty well, aside from a few cases of lemons.