Would the Carolina Panthers move on from QB Bryce Young?

[Waldo]

8 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I think history is not going to be kind to the Panthers trading CMC and DJ Moore away. Panthers offense was set up to be very good with even average QB play after Cam was released, but boy howdy did they f*ck that up. 

They are the bottom dweller of the league so I wouldn't expect much kindness. I guess this is what a Tijuana donkey show feels like watching where the leauge is the donkey.

[Stingray3030]

35 minutes ago, strato said:

Please, for my ignorant ass, tell who the deficiencies are, so I can order their participation trophies for the team banquet.  Gonna say Corbett maybe? Who gets one?

Gotta love when I make it extremely clear that I am generalizing Fans and including myself in the group I am saying has unrealistic expectations - yet you snowflakes find a way to take it personal.

Corbett is a very possible deficiency, so is Ickey, so is 30-yr old Moton if he declines.  We also possibly don't have a top 25 TE, top 20 WR, top 60 2nd WR, or TOP 15 RB.  We have a 1st time HC and 1st time OC installing a brand new offense.  These are all significant risks that will have heavy influence on the play and results of the QB.  Everyone's opinion on that is different - I tend to look at the years and terabytes of data that prove statistical significance.

But again I included myself in the category of FANS - so I am not a professional - just an armchair analyst - I don't claim to be an expert.  Some of yall need to go pop a Xanax...it is just football.

[Stingray3030]

51 minutes ago, CRA said:

my expectation last year was top 32.  He failed that.  He could of lost every freaking game for all I care and just showed legit wow moments here or there.   That would have been fine.  

Scariest part of Bryce Young...he never really had any moments that showed he should of been drafted high, let alone mortgaging the farm for him at #1.   Bryce looks like a pretty clear deficiency to date for the O. He bring the O down, playcalling down, WR play down and skews how the D plays. 

See - a fair assessment - I don't agree with it at this point, but I don't get upset.  

[d-dave]

I'm in the position that Bryce does have to show that he can be the "dude" here.  Does that mean I expect him to throw 5,000 yards, 50 TDs, and 0 picks?

No.  But I want to see his play pick up.  I want to see those creative plays he's known for.  I want to see the Anticipation.  

Qb is a difficult position to evaluate, especially for a dumb dumb like me.  I think we'll know if Bryce can be the guy, but is being held back by a lack of talent on the team.  I mean, if the OL is still a sieve, can Bryce be blamed for running for his life?  For making those mistakes?  But we'll be able to see if Bryce causes his own problems.

I was thinking about that particular video; it popped up while I was making dinner last night.  Look at the timeline for the Steelers and Kenney Pickett.  He had a great HC, good defense, some good skill players, and an OL better than the Panthers.  They gave up on him in two years.  Then look at Bryce's rookie year: we saw the poo show that was from a coaching, execution, and talent standpoint.  

I think Tim has softened me a little bit that this is "it" for Bryce.  That he's playing for his job.  I think that's much more a Dan Morgan/Dave Canales perspective.  I mean, for those guys, it's their job on the line with Bryce.

Is the 2025 class of QBs any good?  We'll see!  I still think it's up to Bryce to get it together and show us he's the leader we need.

[*FreeFua*]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I am not sold on him yet.  He has all the tools but he needs to put it together for another year

He has the tools. That’s more than the guy we have now has. Again, if Canales is who he’s supposed to be give him a guy with all the tools 

[strato]

1 hour ago, Stingray3030 said:

Gotta love when I make it extremely clear that I am generalizing Fans and including myself in the group I am saying has unrealistic expectations - yet you snowflakes find a way to take it personal.

Corbett is a very possible deficiency, so is Ickey, so is 30-yr old Moton if he declines.  We also possibly don't have a top 25 TE, top 20 WR, top 60 2nd WR, or TOP 15 RB.  We have a 1st time HC and 1st time OC installing a brand new offense.  These are all significant risks that will have heavy influence on the play and results of the QB.  Everyone's opinion on that is different - I tend to look at the years and terabytes of data that prove statistical significance.

But again I included myself in the category of FANS - so I am not a professional - just an armchair analyst - I don't claim to be an expert.  Some of yall need to go pop a Xanax...it is just football.

Do I need to tell that it was a self deprecating joke? dude. My ignorant ass. Joke. You have never heard anybody say that?

Sigh... I was not upset with you. Like, at all. There is no need to insult someone for asking you a question.  Insult some other snowflake. There is no shortage. 

The other poo about the trophies wasn’t aimed at you, it was aimed at whoever is slacking on the team. That I was asking about. Because I only could think of one. Why I asked. I also asked because to me, if a person makes a statement about weak players on the offense, they normally name them. 

Thanks for the info.

 

Edited August 15 by strato

[strato]

11 hours ago, amcoolio said:

If Bryce plays really freaking well and they are 4-13, I still think they move on from Bryce. Tepper is not patient

Interesting thought. I think a lot of other things will factor as well. How the coach looks. How Morgan’s additions look. Was Young a contributing factor to someone being less, or more? So much stuff. 

You sort of have to unravel those threads to understand it. Seems to me.

But um, then you have Tepper. But he is on restriction lol so we will have to see if he adheres to his New Yesr’s resolution. New League Year’s Resolution to be more precise. I understand betting on him to break it. 

[strato]

Okay, the sack total thing that’s been mentioned, can someone weigh in... 

BY 62 sacks in 2023.

He accounted for a few himself (the two finger one, that is on him lol) 

But the slower pace got him caught several times too. Poor pocket awareness. How many should he own? Because that means he has a goal of cutting down those mistakes. 

Say it was 10, just for fun. He needs to cut it to 5. 

That leaves the OL with 52 on them to work on. 

How many total whiffs were there just inside? A lot. 

We know Icky, don’t know his numbers. But he was a victim of Bryce dropping too far, and into where Icky was taking the rushers. So all of those were not his fault. But man he was freakimng horrible otherwise, even his run blocking was a shadow of the rookie year.

Anyhow, there are 52. What’s the number that qualifies Bryce as being adequately protected relative to the rest of the QBs? 

It would sure be nice to provide a no excuses environment so we can rightly evaluate him. 

All I could find was team stats. Need to take 3 off for Dalton’s game. Young was 62 in 16 games, just under 4 per. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/#all_passing

I figure it is simple enough to find a QB that thrived, with a high number of sacks, and take that as a goal.

Lot of top ten Qbs are on the least sacked teams but there are some with a number closer to the middle of the pack. 

Houston was 21st as a team, 47 sacks. 

Baltimore was 17th and had 41. 

Fair enough? What do we think? What is the baseline for sufficient improvement? I am saying at least one sack a game less puts things around 50. Houston had 47. So that’s getting close. If they can shave a few more off, I think we are clear for fair evaluation. And already a better team by a degree at least. 

There is some play, I think I fudged Dalton’s sacks, and I am horrible with numbers anyway. Someone might refine this into something readable. 

Edited August 15 by strato

[UNCrules2187]

I've got modest expectations. Hoping for meaningful improvement but nothing wild. 5-7 wins, 3500+ pass yards, 25+ TDs, cut the turnovers (INTs+fumbles) in half. If he shows that, I think he'll get more time. 

[PNW_PantherMan]

5 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

I've got modest expectations. Hoping for meaningful improvement but nothing wild. 5-7 wins, 3500+ pass yards, 25+ TDs, cut the turnovers (INTs+fumbles) in half. If he shows that, I think he'll get more time. 

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, strato said:

Okay, the sack total thing that’s been mentioned, can someone weigh in... 

BY 62 sacks in 2023.

He accounted for a few himself (the two finger one, that is on him lol) 

But the slower pace got him caught several times too. Poor pocket awareness. How many should he own? Because that means he has a goal of cutting down those mistakes. 

Say it was 10, just for fun. He needs to cut it to 5. 

That leaves the OL with 52 on them to work on. 

How many total whiffs were there just inside? A lot. 

We know Icky, don’t know his numbers. But he was a victim of Bryce dropping too far, and into where Icky was taking the rushers. So all of those were not his fault. But man he was freakimng horrible otherwise, even his run blocking was a shadow of the rookie year.

Anyhow, there are 52. What’s the number that qualifies Bryce as being adequately protected relative to the rest of the QBs? 

It would sure be nice to provide a no excuses environment so we can rightly evaluate him. 

All I could find was team stats. Need to take 3 off for Dalton’s game. Young was 62 in 16 games, just under 4 per. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/#all_passing

I figure it is simple enough to find a QB that thrived, with a high number of sacks, and take that as a goal.

Lot of top ten Qbs are on the least sacked teams but there are some with a number closer to the middle of the pack. 

Houston was 21st as a team, 47 sacks. 

Baltimore was 17th and had 41. 

Fair enough? What do we think? What is the baseline for sufficient improvement? I am saying at least one sack a game less puts things around 50. Houston had 47. So that’s getting close. If they can shave a few more off, I think we are clear for fair evaluation. And already a better team by a degree at least. 

There is some play, I think I fudged Dalton’s sacks, and I am horrible with numbers anyway. Someone might refine this into something readable. 

All I can think of is PFF. You would have to take thr team total sacks allowed and minus the oline sacks allowed. There were games last year where posters were mad that Ickey didn't get blame for Bryce holding the ball too long or too far back where protection becomes impossible. No idea where it falls but it was near rookie Carr'esk in self sacks. It's just hard to guess with how bad the interior played on so many other plays.

Edited August 15 by Waldo

[Score Board]

Bottom line is with sports on a pro level either you have it or you don’t. A quarterback in the NFL is suppose to put a team on his back and lead regardless of the situation. Bryce Young just doesn’t show the ability to do that (so far). He was an awesome college football qb on an awesome football team. But as far as Bryce elevating players around him to win… IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN. And if by week 3 if we don’t see it move the f u c k on from him. He is what we considered a bust.. The truth hurts but it’s the truth 

[UNCrules2187]

3 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

O/U is 5.5 juiced to the over at all the reputable books. Easy schedule. If Bryce isn't a total dud and Evero can make chicken salad out of chicken poo with the pass rush and secondary, 6 wins should be achievable. For Bryce's stats, all I'm asking for is 200 pass ypg and 1.5 pass TDs per game on average. If we can't hit those marks with this schedule, then it means Bryce is a certified bust, we'll have a top 3 pick, and one of Carson Beck/Shadeur Sanders/Quinn Ewers is holding up a Panthers jersey in April 2025.

Edited August 15 by UNCrules2187

[PNW_PantherMan]

14 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

O/U is 5.5 juiced to the over at all the reputable books. Easy schedule. If Bryce isn't a total dud and Evero can make chicken salad out of chicken poo with the pass rush and secondary, 6 wins should be achievable. For Bryce's stats, all I'm asking for is 200 pass ypg and 1.5 pass TDs per game on average. If we can't hit those marks with this schedule, then it means Bryce is a certified bust, we'll have a top 3 pick, and one of Carson Beck/Shadeur Sanders/Quinn Ewers is holding up a Panthers jersey in April 2025.

Maybe I should take the under to hedge my enjoyment of this season.  I think anything more than 5 games is optimistic.  Not impossible, but its pushing the definition of modest for me.  I respect your optimism.