Panthers Practice August 14th

[Newtcase]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

I have been wrong more than not, but I feel like Bryce will look better this year and the new argument will be is he good enough.  Some people will have some crazy standards like he must be a top 5 QB right now because of what we gave up and some will have too low of standards like he was better than last year (even if it's marginal).  A nonstop vicious cycle of Bryce this and Bryce that....

Well to be fair those are just the arguments that normal fanbases have unless you clearly have an answer at the position.  

[Ricky Spanish]

6 minutes ago, Newtcase said:

Cherry picking one statistic to support your argument without context isn't good faith debate.

For example, I could cherry pick bad throw %, of which Bryce was the worst in the league by a mile at 21.5%.  But that would lack the context of pressure, wr quality, play calling, quality of opponent and many other context pieces that may help explain why he threw so many poor passes.

Cherry picking interception percentage ignores how lucky he may have been with dropped interceptions, which was quite lucky by the way.  It was almost extraordinary how many interceptions he threw that were between the numbers and dropped.  It also ignores weather, injuries, quality of opponent, hell maybe the receiver fell or didn't fall for another guy.  The point being a single stat in a vacuum does nothing but make your argument look feeble.  

Look I get it, you like Bryce or at least you're a glass half full guy.  Anyone else with a shred of doubt is a hater or cynic, always dismissing the possibility that we're just Panthers fans commenting on what we've observed.  I would be thrilled for Bryce to blow up and make us relevant this year.  I wouldn't give one single shitz about the crowd in here that would rush to tell me how wrong I was.  I'm capable of observing what's happened and judging just that.  I want to see quality football.  I linger on this board all day because I'm obsessed with the Panthers not because I'm obsessed with shitting on Bryce.

So, there was context, and I even gave room for arguments against Bryce that would potentially lead to that low INT% in his small ball approach and lack of downfield throws. I didn't even say he was objectively good at it, In fact my direct quote was "protecting the ball from INTs was one of the few things that Bryce was halfway decent at last season (Fumbles, another story)". Since I said it was one of the few things he did well, it could be implied that he did many more things downright bad based on my wording. My point was that Bryce could be criticized for 9/10 categories, but picking that specific argument as a point of criticism was not the right one.

There was nothing about my argument that was brought in bad faith. It was, a very specific stat to directly speak on one specific criticism against Bryce. At no point was I saying I like Bryce or that he will in fact be good. Bringing up bad throw % and turnover worthy plays are fair arguments to bring up in the discussion, and I welcome those numbers and insights because I'm a data nerd, however I did not have access to those stats.

 

 

[ProcessBlue2]

Bryce out here making Shy Tuttle look like Chris Gamble.

Edited August 14 by ProcessBlue2

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

So, there was context, and I even gave room for arguments against Bryce that would potentially lead to that low INT% in his small ball approach and lack of downfield throws. I didn't even say he was objectively good at it, In fact my direct quote was "protecting the ball from INTs was one of the few things that Bryce was halfway decent at last season (Fumbles, another story)". Since I said it was one of the few things he did well, it could be implied that he did many more things downright bad based on my wording. My point was that Bryce could be criticized for 9/10 categories, but picking that specific argument as a point of criticism was not the right one.

There was nothing about my argument that was brought in bad faith. It was, a very specific stat to directly speak on one specific criticism against Bryce. At no point was I saying I like Bryce or that he will in fact be good. Bringing up bad throw % and turnover worthy plays are fair arguments to bring up in the discussion, and I welcome those numbers and insights because I'm a data nerd, however I did not have access to those stats.

 

 

It's to the point where you can't even have a neutral opinion with some of these people on here.  

[Newtcase]

1 hour ago, Navy_football said:

some folk will find fault in everything Bryce does. If he passes for 4000 yards and 30 TDs, it'll be because of all they invested to help him - even though this is really still a below average roster. It is what it is. 

I have no issue getting behind Bryce when he deserves it.  Here's one of my posts after the Green Bay game last year.

 

[Newtcase]

8 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

So, there was context, and I even gave room for arguments against Bryce that would potentially lead to that low INT% in his small ball approach and lack of downfield throws. I didn't even say he was objectively good at it, In fact my direct quote was "protecting the ball from INTs was one of the few things that Bryce was halfway decent at last season (Fumbles, another story)". Since I said it was one of the few things he did well, it could be implied that he did many more things downright bad based on my wording. My point was that Bryce could be criticized for 9/10 categories, but picking that specific argument as a point of criticism was not the right one.

There was nothing about my argument that was brought in bad faith. It was, a very specific stat to directly speak on one specific criticism against Bryce. At no point was I saying I like Bryce or that he will in fact be good. Bringing up bad throw % and turnover worthy plays are fair arguments to bring up in the discussion, and I welcome those numbers and insights because I'm a data nerd, however I did not have access to those stats.

 

 

Yeah, I replied to your first post and eventually caught your additional replies later after I had already posted this.  Cheers

[hepcat]

2 minutes ago, Newtcase said:

I have no issue getting behind Bryce when he deserves it.  Here's one of my posts after the Green Bay game last year.

 

I remember going into that game thinking that if Bryce couldn’t show anything against the league’s WORST pass defense at the time, he was done. Green Bay’s pass defense even made Tommy Devito look good last year. 

[Manna]

13 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I remember going into that game thinking that if Bryce couldn’t show anything against the league’s WORST pass defense at the time, he was done. Green Bay’s pass defense even made Tommy Devito look good last year. 

I bought the hype that week. Even told my wife I'd rock a Young jersey living out here in California.

Those dreams quickly fizzled out the following weeks as we put up zero points, 206 yards passing (25.75 yards per quarter), 188 rushing yards (23.5 yards per quarter) no touchdowns, one interception, and sacked 9 times in two games to close out the season. 

Still cautiously waiting to be proven wrong.

Edited August 14 by Manna

[frankw]

39 minutes ago, beo said:

The people who swing between one extreme and another like this are in the wrong regardless of what "side" they take. Both were integral and without either of them they win a lot less than they did. Bill having a rough few last years because of his shortcomings as a GM doesn't change that. It takes extreme recency bias to downplay how legendary of a coach BB was.

They absolutely do not win in 2018 or 2001 without Bill. Not even factoring in how differently the season's would probably go without one of the better defensive minds of all time coaching the defense. Which could result in seeding changes and the Patriots drawing different matchups. For all we know Brady could've ended up having a similar career to Rodgers without the great defenses he was blessed with over the years.

I think BB the general manager has skewed the view of BB the coach. I agree he is one of the greatest coaches of all time. But I don't think he's the Andy Reid to Patrick Mahomes so to speak. Brady's dominance in his twilight years with the Bucs confirms that.

As far as the Patriots runs through those championship years it's important to note just how abysmal the division they played in was for so long making for an automatic playoff home game out of the gate more often than not. That helps big.

Anywho fug em regardless. As far as I'm concerned we won that Super Bowl 🫡

[frankw]

48 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

What if those 4000 yards are only 5 yard passes?

800 pass attempts to achieve that would certainly change things lol

[beo]

9 minutes ago, frankw said:

I think BB the general manager has skewed the view of BB the coach. I agree he is one of the greatest coaches of all time. But I don't think he's the Andy Reid to Patrick Mahomes so to speak. Brady's dominance in his twilight years with the Bucs confirms that.

As far as the Patriots runs through those championship years it's important to note just how abysmal the division they played in was for so long making for an automatic playoff home game out of the gate more often than not. That helps big.

Anywho fug em regardless. As far as I'm concerned we won that Super Bowl 🫡

We mainly agree then. Though I don't think Reid was a better coach than Bill. Regarding the division, I don't think the AFC West has been much better than the AFC East was early on. You had the Chargers a few years ago I suppose but those teams never really went anywhere. Not much different from the 00s Dolphins in that respect. That one Raiders fluke run which could be likened to the 01 Jets. Besides that the AFCW has pretty much been all Chiefs since the game that shall not be named. 

Edited August 14 by beo

[frankw]

1 hour ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Wasn’t Darnold usually good during Camp? It was when games matter that he fe apart. Even though it seem like he is not doing well for the Vikings in training camp. Gonna be a LONG season for Vikings fans. 

The enigma of Darnold is he was usually good for at least one "wow" throw per practice/game. He has all the phsyical tools and mobility to boot. The decision making was...ouch. Therein lies the conundrum we face. We have a guy we drafted #1 for his processing who has currently what can accurately be described as Sam Darnold tendencies in the decision making dept without any of those physical tools. Le sigh...

Edited August 14 by frankw

[LinvilleGorge]

This is why I want Bryce to boom or continue to bust this year. We need an answer. Worst case scenario is he marginally improves and every thread is still devolving into a pissing contest about Bryce Young.

[jayboogieman]

13 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

every thread is still devolving into a pissing contest about Bryce Young.

No way man. Keep that poo out of the college game threads.