Panthers Practice August 14th

[Ricky Spanish]

15 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

why would you leave out fumbles?

It's considered a "Running" Stat on PFR and not on the passing table.

I just looked it up:

Howell fumbles - 2 on 48 attempts, sacked 65 times

Bryce fumbles - 6 on 39 attempts, sacked 62 times

Results:

Howell turnover play % - 3.2

Bryce turnover play % - 2.5

Howell turns the ball over at a higher rate than Bryce, even with fumbles taken into account.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, Ricky Spanish said:

It's considered a "Running" Stat on PFR and not on the passing table.

I just looked it up:

Howell fumbles - 2 on 48 attempts, sacked 65 times

Bryce fumbles - 6 on 39 attempts, sacked 62 times

Results:

Howell turnover play % - 3.2

Bryce turnover play % - 2.5

Howell turns the ball over at a higher percentage than Bryce, even with fumbles.

Not sure how that correlates into a "running" play.  

[jayboogieman]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

efenses were simply sitting on the routes last year. 

Chalk that up to the super experienced coaching staff and their play calling more than anything else. Just like in that SB against the Broncos, if the defense knows what play is being called, they're going to win.

[PNW_PantherMan]

I don't know why you guys are so caught up on stats.  He didn't throw many INTs for a starter.  You can say that's because he was overly safe, or its the receivers fault, or its Reich, etc.  But the reality is, he turned the ball over less than most rookies would in that situation.

[Castavar]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

Again this isn't changing the season stats?  10 INTs still equates to 10.  You get that right?  I mean he could have thrown all 10 in one games and 0 in the rest and the point Ricky was making is still valid.  

10 is 10 not matter how you get there.

Dude threw 10 ints while only averaging 5.5 ypa. Let that sink in.

[Ricky Spanish]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

Not sure how that correlates into a "running" play.  

No idea, that's just how the data is coded on PFR. They don't distinguish a fumble on a run play/scramble vs. a fumble from a blindside hit in the pocket.

Those types of fumbles are not equal, much like INTs off a receiver's hands and Arm Punts on 3rd and long vs. the Sam Darnold "The hell were you looking at?" Special.

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The burden of proof is on Bryce.  He wasn't good enough last year, and he doesn't look any different this year.  That's where the concern is coming from.  If the direction doesn't change, expect similar results.

This seems fair.  I want to see how it all looks in the regular season games personally.  I expect plenty of issues in practice/preseason while they are learning with a new coach and a new system.  If it continues throughout the regular season then he will just lead us to draft his replacement.  It just it what it is at this point. 

[PanthersGTI]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

sure man, stats was the wrong word.  I should have said my eyeballs tell me he will be bad this year.  You got me

Okay so point proven. You base it on how you feel. FINE, stop trying to play it off like you got something substantive to say. Its okay to admit your biases, in fact its probably healthy to have a little inner look sometimes. You a joke man, get called out and then act like everyone else is an asshole.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, Ricky Spanish said:

No idea, that's just how the data is coded on PFR. They don't distinguish a fumble on a run play/scramble vs. a fumble from a blindside hit in the pocket.

Those types of fumbles are not equal, much like INTs off a receiver's hands and Arm Punts on 3rd and long vs. the Sam Darnold "The hell were you looking at?" Special.

then its not valid IMO

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Castavar said:

Dude threw 10 ints while only averaging 5.5 ypa. Let that sink in.

That's the whole point of the argument lol!  Were you not following along?  Conservative check down ball vs deeper/risky throws.  One will lead to more interceptions and that might not be a bad thing.  Especially if there is learning and adjustments going on.  I'm all for having the offense take some risks at the risk of more turnovers vs the conversative play we had last year.  

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, PanthersGTI said:

Okay so point proven. You base it on how you feel. FINE, stop trying to play it off like you got something substantive to say. Its okay to admit your biases, in fact its probably healthy to have a little inner look sometimes. You a joke man, get called out and then act like everyone else is an asshole.

how is it a bias?  Hes tiny, he has flaws, he was ass last year.   He is going to have to be such an anomaly to be successful its insane, thats not bias now thats a fact.   Name me the last 5'10 180 qb that was successful.

[PNW_PantherMan]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

This seems fair.  I want to see how it all looks in the regular season games personally.  I expect plenty of issues in practice/preseason while they are learning with a new coach and a new system.  If it continues throughout the regular season then he will just lead us to draft his replacement.  It just it what it is at this point. 

I told myself to be patient, but I've seen too much already.  I'm holding out hope that the regular season week 1 will be a pleasant surprise.  But you know.  If it smells like poo outside the bathroom door, I wouldn't open it.  That's kinda where I'm at.

[frankw]

12 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

I came on strong on that last post. I am legitimately sorry. You're frustrated, I'm frustrated, we're all frustrated that the team sucks. That's not an excuse to be a dick. My bad.

HOWEVER

The first part of the bolded above statement I will not argue.

The SECOND part however, is factually, and statistically incorrect.

Howell had 21 interceptions on 612 attempts. He had the 2nd worst INT% in the league behind only mac jones:

Bryce's stats are ugly pretty much across the board... except that INT%.

In conclusion:

He is not turning the ball over as bad or worse than Sam Howell.

I accept and also apologize for anything that could be misconstrued. I have no ill will toward my fellow fans no matter how heated discussions may get. I also do not see someone as inferior for having a difference of opinion. Honestly there's too much provoking going on in both sides of this heated discussion.

Now I need to make my position here clear. I'm not trying to entirely dismiss what you're saying here. You are presenting correct data. But like anything additional context is required. When I am talking about turnovers I am also speaking about the now. No he did not have an alarmingly high number of interceptions last year. Although you could argue if he pushed the ball downfield more he would have approached Howell's number. I cannot stress enough how unwilling he was to pull the trigger on a lot of pass attempts for reasons we can argue about for hours. But you have to acknowledge the distinct lack of any consistent downfield threats from BY skews that data some as far as comparison to Howell. I know and agree that we want him to get this out of his system in practice. But still. The existence and circumstances of these picks he's thrown this month are very concerning. And I do not think they are just going to disappear come regular season. Especially if he does not get any important preseason reps.

Tomorrow will bring much needed clarity to this whole debate. All we can do is wait.

[WestPanthers]

53 minutes ago, countryboi said:

I can’t even read practice with because y’all complaining all in the post. I get it you don’t like Bryce. You don’t have to tell us everyday. 

This place has become toxic lately. Consistent people are bashing for the same thing every single day in every single post and that's why I switched to particular youtubers to get more information for the team.

The funny thing is those huddles are claiming who else is going to waste time on this shitty team and ironic that they're the ones who spend the most time in this forum.....