Unnecessary Bluntness podcast on Canales and preseason approach

[Icege]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Some mocked Frazier as the top pick even over a WR.  The point being, center was a glaring need and we decided to move a injury prone RG who has never played center as our 'fix'.  The fan base was all over taking a center.  FYI, usually on 5-6 centers get taken in a typical draft.  Raym at #12 is beyond camp fodder.

Yes, center was a need. I'm not disputing that.

What I'm disputing is that the team didn't do anything. You're saying Raym is camp fodder as the 12th-ranked center, then what about McMahon who was ranked 11th but drafted at #190? Is he just camp fodder?

BC and Cade Mays can both play center. Mays played center in college. The team felt confident with those options and still brought in Raym.

Personally, I would have preferred them to bring in one of the top 5 guys but XL, Brooks, Wallace, and Sanders instead I'm okay with taking instead. Brooks is going to be the only RB under contract next season, Sanders was a steal at #101, XL clearly fits the mold of WR that Canales thinks that the team needs, and Wallace is being prepped to take over for Shaq. The moves make sense, regardless of whether or not it was my preference.

[strato]

50 minutes ago, Icege said:

Yes, center was a need. I'm not disputing that.

What I'm disputing is that the team didn't do anything. You're saying Raym is camp fodder as the 12th-ranked center, then what about McMahon who was ranked 11th but drafted at #190? Is he just camp fodder?

BC and Cade Mays can both play center. Mays played center in college. The team felt confident with those options and still brought in Raym.

Personally, I would have preferred them to bring in one of the top 5 guys but XL, Brooks, Wallace, and Sanders instead I'm okay with taking instead. Brooks is going to be the only RB under contract next season, Sanders was a steal at #101, XL clearly fits the mold of WR that Canales thinks that the team needs, and Wallace is being prepped to take over for Shaq. The moves make sense, regardless of whether or not it was my preference.

I tend to agree with that last paragraph. Not going to be right on all 4 probably, but I get it.

Everyone said, pretty sure, that this was more than a one year fix and the team put center a little down the to do list. I had ideas as to why, but don’t know. 

I just want this QB properly tested, trained and evaluated correctly whatever that ends up being. I doubt I’ll be for moving on if he proves himself, but the question needs to be answered this season, IMO.

No slow arc, no long trek to enlightenment. This year. If he sucks again we don’t need to be drafting around him any more. Which, not taking that C, was. Among other things, Evero might have an opinion on a player and be shut down because they want to draft offense... . 

Edited August 12 by strato

[45catfan]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

Yes, center was a need. I'm not disputing that.

What I'm disputing is that the team didn't do anything. You're saying Raym is camp fodder as the 12th-ranked center, then what about McMahon who was ranked 11th but drafted at #190? Is he just camp fodder?

BC and Cade Mays can both play center. Mays played center in college. The team felt confident with those options and still brought in Raym. 

Personally, I would have preferred them to bring in one of the top 5 guys but XL, Brooks, Wallace, and Sanders instead I'm okay with taking instead. Brooks is going to be the only RB under contract next season, Sanders was a steal at #101, XL clearly fits the mold of WR that Canales thinks that the team needs, and Wallace is being prepped to take over for Shaq. The moves make sense, regardless of whether or not it was my preference.

"Can" do something and being excellent at it are vastly different things. The team feeling confident in spit-balling the center position is quintessential Panthers. RB, TE, ILB and WR were positions of need, but the order of the positions and players picked I had issue with.  At least we traded back to get a full slate of picks next year. 

[Icege]

Just now, 45catfan said:

"Can" do something and being excellent at it are vastly different things. The team feeling confident in spit-balling the center position is quintessential Panthers. RB, TE, ILB and WR were positions of need, but the order of the positions and players picked I had issue with.  At least we traded back to get a full slate of picks next year. 

So because they didn't pick players based off of the order that you preferred they didn't do anything? 

[Waldo]

Didn't even Canales say he wasn't an innovator? He isn't a Mc Daniel or McVay. He has a system he is known for and that's what he runs. Why are people overhyping him so much? If he can't salvage a playable oline with the money spent and options that were out there then he shouldn't just to get a pass. It would actually be a good sign he isn't ready and isn't the guy needed here. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

I also said we should have drafted a center. Again, what do I know? It pains me to see as a casual observer, with no formal football scouting training, the blatantly obvious moves this team should make and they end up going completely in a different direction.

And that's what's really sad. We spend a small fortune on our offensive line between Moton and G's, Ickey as a top 10 pick, and the guy to lead that unit is coming of 2 leg injuries and is being moved from guard. 

What good does it do to spend all those resources and leave a gaping hole right in the middle? Sure we can pick a cast off from another team if Corbett doesn't work out. But taking cast offs to anchor the middle of our expensive online doesn't make any sense. 

[45catfan]

19 minutes ago, Icege said:

So because they didn't pick players based off of the order that you preferred they didn't do anything? 

I never said they didn't do anything.  I even said they even went with several positions I actually wanted.  However, the order, trade ups, guys in those position groups I would have done differently. 

[Jmac]

Banking on a guy (coming off injury), who hasn't spent much time as a starting center....is a big gamble. But this is the Panthers.

[TD alt]

2 hours ago, Waldo said:

Didn't even Canales say he wasn't an innovator? He isn't a Mc Daniel or McVay. He has a system he is known for and that's what he runs. Why are people overhyping him so much? If he can't salvage a playable oline with the money spent and options that were out there then he shouldn't just to get a pass. It would actually be a good sign he isn't ready and isn't the guy needed here. 

I don't know. Hadn't heard that, but to be totally honest, having an "innovator" is great, but just give me a coach with situational awareness and who's able to call the appropriate play out of the playbook at the right time. You don't have to reinvent the wheel to be a great coach.

[strato]

2 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

And that's what's really sad. We spend a small fortune on our offensive line between Moton and G's, Ickey as a top 10 pick, and the guy to lead that unit is coming of 2 leg injuries and is being moved from guard. 

What good does it do to spend all those resources and leave a gaping hole right in the middle? Sure we can pick a cast off from another team if Corbett doesn't work out. But taking cast offs to anchor the middle of our expensive online doesn't make any sense. 

Better sense to use the Lewis money and put it into C and another G maybe? who was out there? 

We know the (IMO erroneous) Brees analogy that people make with Young. We know what they did to help Brees, and we know that that was the idea here. They copied that idea. So, that’s a choice they had to make. We didn’t see probably the second guard coming until it was happening, I don’t remember much debating of it until after. Might be wrong on that.

I remember realizing we really needed a C and then came to think they were not going to draft one high.

There were priorities because you can’t upgrade everything at once, this is what they tried. Doesn’t look good, but hasn’t been proven to not work yet. So here we are.

Also, 17 games where people predict us to win 4 or 5 mostly. 12 or 13 losses. If it takes two or three games (I think more) to get things maybe working a little better, we need to keep that in mind. 

 

EDIT: And when people wonder why some are irritated at Young in all of these threads, everything connects to him. There is no degree of separation, as it were. Exhibit number 1 here is the Brees treatment of the OL. What if we didn’t have to think like that when we assemble an OL? 

Also, I have said I believe a factor in the C thing was they did not want to put a rookie down there because, they don’t want to put more stuff on Bryce. That’s me spitballing though, the other is not.

Edited August 12 by strato

[Johnstonny]

5 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

This team is 1 injery away on the offensive line from looking exactly like they did last season. Let that marinate in your brain for a minute. 

But hey....we got a project WR and a busted up RB.... We don't need no stinkin line.

Edited August 12 by Johnstonny

[Waldo]

33 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I don't know. Hadn't heard that, but to be totally honest, having an "innovator" is great, but just give me a coach with situational awareness and who's able to call the appropriate play out of the playbook at the right time. You don't have to reinvent the wheel to be a great coach.

He already is trying with his preseason approach tho...The NFL requires innovation or guys get obsoleted when they can't adapt. He is also a HC and not just a play caller so all the personnel moves he made with his GM and friend is partially in his lap already.

Just saying that he wasn't some amazing HC prospect anyways. Solid? Maybe. If he can't put some serious positives out there this year with his coaching then selling the 'just wait until he blossoms' thing is a hard sell for me. Every time someone gets their 'fair shot' under Tepper they fail massively and in fact they were absolutely part of the previous problems. That was never what I wanted but it's sure proving true again and again. 

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, Waldo said:

He already is trying with his preseason approach tho...The NFL requires innovation or guys get obsoleted when they can't adapt. He is also a HC and not just a play caller so all the personnel moves he made with his GM and friend is partially in his lap already.

Just saying that he wasn't some amazing HC prospect anyways. Solid? Maybe. If he can't put some serious positives out there this year with his coaching then selling the 'just wait until he blossoms' thing is a hard sell for me. Every time someone gets their 'fair shot' under Tepper they fail massively and in fact they were absolutely part of the previous problems. That was never what I wanted but it's sure proving true again and again. 

I don't know how you reach "solid".....when your 1 year as an OC featured a bottom half O sporting the worst run game in the NFL. 

It all stinks.  Always has.  Not only is Canales super green and unproven....Tepper allowed him to stretch himself thin by calling plays.   

You can basically predict this entire season before it kicks off.....much like you could do the last 2.  The last 2 were super predictable.   Well, Frank making that early of an exist wasn't but the overall season was. 

 

[electro's horse]

I’d like to see how Corbett does with an actual qb.