Watching Giants Off-Season Hard Knocks and Something is Crystallizing...

[Proudiddy]

I loved Dan as a player since college snd have been pulling for him ever since.  I'm still holding out hope he can turn things around here, but man...  some stuff is just hard to stomach.  Getting Diontae was an absolute steal.  But seeing how hard the Giants keyed in on Burns so early, knowing Dan already had a relationship with Schoen, seeing their conversation started with Dan asking for two ones, then seeing the negotiations distill down to us getting haggled out of asking for an additional 7th to go with the 2nd we already settled for...  if that's how your friends do you, then I'm kind of worried what negotiations with someone else would look like.  

I haven't been frequenting the boards as much, as I'm going through massive change in my life, and considering our whole organization has continuously and progressively deteriorated under Tepper since he's been here, I haven't been as nearly locked in as a fan as I used to be...  so maybe I missed the reaction to this already, but man, what a huge punch to the gut.  I didn't rag on passing up on the Rams two 1sts offer when many did last year because I figured we were keeping Burns, so it made sense from that perspective...  but the fact that was offered, we passed on it, and then even with considering Fitt was fired and Morgan took over, we end up still asking for two 1sts as the starting point and end up with a 2nd and a 5th while also giving up a pick of our own for the best pass rusher from his class...  yikes.  I would rather have just kept him.  And in addition to that, early reviews on this draft class so far isn't great from what I've read.  

 

I've said it elsewhere, but man, I really feel like the only way we turn things around under Tepper is to back into success by accident.

[Donald LaFell]

I think he was gone regardless so it basically just starts with passing up on the Burns trade. If you pass up on a trade that big it should mean he’s getting signed the same day. It’s Fitt’s mistake all the way. 

Getting anything at all speaks to Burns talent as a player and the GM. I’d call it a win. 
 

I also do feel like Tepper won’t find success unless by accident. Feels like he values the wrong things. I didn’t like Wilks as a long term coach but I think he would have been an amazing coach for rebuilding the team and getting back to an even footing. 

[Bear Hands]

If I remember Hard Knocks correctly, outside of the Morgan chat, there was a moment where the Giants staff was chatting Burns and they mentioned it would probably take a first prior to negotiations even starting. 

It does feel we didn’t squeeze enough, but we had limited options in the market given Burns’ contract wishes. If these guys were good, I imagine we could’ve gotten a 2nd and future 3rd. I also found it rather silly we tried to add a 7th. I mean..Play some hardball, they’re eyeing your best defender, tell them to get a better damn offer and if they want to be serious. Seemed like we took a deal when we could’ve negotiated a bit more.

Draft wise, yeah, concerning again although I like Brooks, Trevin and Sanders a lot…but the way we navigated the first two picks was frustrating.  I was in the camp of XL needed way too much work to take that high and we needed a guy like Pearsall/Ladd/Polk that can step in with refined rr skills.

I liked the Rams trade we made, but man, would’ve thought the minor trade up target could’ve been a DNA changer like Sainristil. 

It’s a mixed bag. Felt better than Fitt but still underwhelming.

[electro's horse]

I swear to god turning down that rams trade for first two and three drafts in the future is going to live rent free in some peoples heads for the rest of their lives. 
 

[strato]

Short version to my mind is that Tepper and Fitterer together made the decision on rejecting the 2 1sts for Burns. Morgan was probably mostly a witness. 

When that gets out you are in a position of weakness now you have to overpay Burns - because you falsely set his value when you basically told the NFL that 2 1sts was not enough. 

Because 2 1sts was no doubt way the hell up there. 

Morgan was in a horrible position that was created by the organization. It was further muddied by the need to provide the undersized bonus baby QB with support. They had to do something and the market was trashed.

Now you are into FA, trying to fix the line, trying to add weapons fore this QB and I believe Legette was a reflection of their lack of confidence in the QB they have to build the offense around. Russel Wilson rainbow, jump ball, prayer. 

I’m not freaking over a singular miss at a draft slot (a single pick in a current round let’s say), that happens every draft for every team almost. I don’t mind people having negative opinions about things they have done, at all, but the Final type of judgent needs to be tempered with the realization of what Morgan is dealing with right now.

That includes a super volatile employer, and much fallout from a litany of costly mistakes made repeatedly in pursuit of the franchise quarterback. poo was in shambles. Just to start with. I don’t know yet if the draft was good or bad but I think there were concessions via evaluations that were made to accommodate the current quarterback project.

That QB thing needs to be resolved so they (or whoever) will have a clear direction to take player acquisition for the offensive side of the ball. 

 

Edited August 12 by strato

[thennek]

If Tepper continues to meddle the Panthers will continue to make stupid decisions and continue to be a losing franchise. There have been so many bad decisions made the past 6 years it is really hard to remember all of them.  I really hope Morgan stands up to Tepper.  How they are handling Young right now makes me wonder if Tepper is really letting his football people make decisions.  When Frank was here for a very brief period, he said Tepper was very involved.  

[Newtcase]

25 minutes ago, thennek said:

If Tepper continues to meddle the Panthers will continue to make stupid decisions and continue to be a losing franchise. There have been so many bad decisions made the past 6 years it is really hard to remember all of them.  I really hope Morgan stands up to Tepper.  How they are handling Young right now makes me wonder if Tepper is really letting his football people make decisions.  When Frank was here for a very brief period, he said Tepper was very involved.  

I think Canales is here on a BY9 mandate.  Saying there is no QB competition seems out of place for a first year head coach given how bad the team was last year.  Dan and Dave have both said on every occasion they want competition up and down the roster.  I can't think of any reason he would handcuff himself to Bryce unless he agreed to it for the job.

Edited August 12 by Newtcase

[strato]

22 minutes ago, thennek said:

If Tepper continues to meddle the Panthers will continue to make stupid decisions and continue to be a losing franchise. There have been so many bad decisions made the past 6 years it is really hard to remember all of them.  I really hope Morgan stands up to Tepper.  How they are handling Young right now makes me wonder if Tepper is really letting his football people make decisions.  When Frank was here for a very brief period, he said Tepper was very involved.  

They've dug their hole on Young, set in stone for at least this year, and there has to be some uncertainty about that. Which I would think influences pretty much everything offense related, in some way.

I mean, is their mindset that they are building for 5’10” 184 physically limited or are they building with the normal QB standard in mind? I’d like to know that. Going by the decisions the 1st round says yes to some people and no to others. 

[OldhamA]

3 minutes ago, Newtcase said:

I think Canales is here on a BY9 mandate.  Saying there is no QB competition seems out of place for a first year head coach given how bad the team was last year.  Dan and Dave have both said on every occasion they want competition up and down the roster.  I can't think of any reason he would handcuff himself to Bryce unless he agreed to it for the job.

I think that's why more reputable HC candidates ran a mile - they didn't want to hitch their wagon to Young. 

[PNW_PantherMan]

6 minutes ago, Newtcase said:

I think Canales is here on a BY9 mandate.  Saying there is no QB competition seems out of place for a first year head coach given how bad the team was last year.  Dan and Dave have both said on every occasion they want competition up and down the roster.  I can't think of any reason he would handcuff himself to Bryce unless he agreed to it for the job.

I believe it.  What a poorly run organization.  Even the 49ers took a flier on Purdy after they invested 3 1sts in Trey Lance.

[strato]

Well, Young is a one to three year issue depending. And could be gone by next year or the following . Tepper is here and will still be here and is a much bigger issue.

Young and Burns and all the rest are symptoms of the disease. Gotta cure the disease. I’m sure Tepper gets the best medical care so he isn’t going away. Gotta hope he is cured of his impulsiveness and false impression that he knows how to do football. 

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

I think that's why more reputable HC candidates ran a mile - they didn't want to hitch their wagon to Young. 

or this front office/owner

it's hard to ignore, David Tepper owns 2 sports teams.....and has had 192 head coaches in 5 years.   

[CPF4LIFE]

2 hours ago, electro's horse said:

I swear to god turning down that rams trade for first two and three drafts in the future is going to live rent free in some peoples heads for the rest of their lives. 
 

Along with trading up for bryce young.

[Tr3ach]

8 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

I loved Dan as a player since college snd have been pulling for him ever since.  I'm still holding out hope he can turn things around here, but man...  some stuff is just hard to stomach.  Getting Diontae was an absolute steal.  But seeing how hard the Giants keyed in on Burns so early, knowing Dan already had a relationship with Schoen, seeing their conversation started with Dan asking for two ones, then seeing the negotiations distill down to us getting haggled out of asking for an additional 7th to go with the 2nd we already settled for...  if that's how your friends do you, then I'm kind of worried what negotiations with someone else would look like.  

I haven't been frequenting the boards as much, as I'm going through massive change in my life, and considering our whole organization has continuously and progressively deteriorated under Tepper since he's been here, I haven't been as nearly locked in as a fan as I used to be...  so maybe I missed the reaction to this already, but man, what a huge punch to the gut.  I didn't rag on passing up on the Rams two 1sts offer when many did last year because I figured we were keeping Burns, so it made sense from that perspective...  but the fact that was offered, we passed on it, and then even with considering Fitt was fired and Morgan took over, we end up still asking for two 1sts as the starting point and end up with a 2nd and a 5th while also giving up a pick of our own for the best pass rusher from his class...  yikes.  I would rather have just kept him.  And in addition to that, early reviews on this draft class so far isn't great from what I've read.  

 

I've said it elsewhere, but man, I really feel like the only way we turn things around under Tepper is to back into success by accident.

I loved Dan as a player and think he's a really good dude.  That being said I've never been sold on him as a gm.  He always entirely got a pass on Fitterers decisions while he was the worst gm in the NFL, and he's always seemed dated as far as approach, schemes, and personnel.  Since he has taken over all he has done is further those worries.   Everything feels exactly like it did with Fitterer, and dated.  Especially draft picks.  I also don't understand the Panthers as a whole and their fascination with becoming the Seahawks of the 2010s.  A system that doesn't work anymore, even for the seahawks.  Heck we got the better of them before that era was over even.