Tanking the season

[Frizzy350]

if you don't think Fox is a lame duck coach along for the ride.....then what is he?

I think Jerry has been very upfront about what Fox/Hurney can and can't do this year.......they now have to operate within that. When Carolina is ready to win again....you will see some legit talent brought in to the DL immediately.

Teams that entering a legit rebuilding process....simply aren't trying to win a Superbowl presently....they are trying to do so in the near future. Even the leader of the D claims it is being rebuilt. In addition, there is only one WR threat on this team.....that would be addressed if they were trying to win now.....no rookie is going to provide what they need in 2010.

i see words that you post, but they all seem to be read as "imma dick imma dick imma dick imma dick"

[panther4life]

our DL has gotten worse every season the past couple years......it gets worse in 2010.

If Jon Beason uses the word rebuilding.....we are you asking us to stop? Carolina is rebuilding.....rebuilding doesn't mean you are rebuidling every aspect of a team. This season is the first part of the process. After this year, they will bring the guys that are needed after we find out the areas these young guys can't get the job done.

so reading all your post tells me that you think John Fox is as good as gone next year but in exchange for hanging around in spite of knowing that his fate here is sealed, he has agreed to give more playing time to players he otherwise wouldnt have just so they can simply audition for a new front office/head coach next year?

[panther4life]

so reading all your post tells me that you think John Fox is as good as gone next year but in exchange for hanging around in spite of knowing that his fate here is sealed, he has agreed to give more playing time to players he otherwise wouldnt have just so they can simply audition for a new front office/head coach next year?

and btw speaking of spin, I never once saw where beason said the words that were "rebuilding" himself. That term was used only to draw attention to the article

[MadHatter]

So here we have folks, buoyed on by national writers who probably couldn't name ten players on the Panthers roster if they were asked, suggesting that the Panthers are tanking this season so that they can start over next year.

The idea is ludicrous.

As has been mentioned, John Fox needs to win this season to save his job (or get a different one). Some suggest it's over his head, but nowhere has he given the slightest indication that he isn't on board with the current plan. And really, do you honestly think Jerry Richardson would throw a whole season down the toilet just to get rid of a coach he could just fire if he so desired? :nonod:

But set that aside for now. Let's look at the decisions that have been made individually.

Not franchising Julius Peppers: Done so as not to tie up a boatload of money inone player who didn't want to be here anyway

Releasing Jake Delhomme: Does anyone really want to argue this decision had no merit? Delhomme was in obvious decline, had a high salary and could have been the center of locker room contention (on his behalf).

Releasing Ma'ake Kemoeatu: There was speculation from loads of people that this would happen due to age/salary/injury. Should come as a surprise to no one.

Releasing Na'il Diggs: The team had younger, cheaper options in Dan Connor and James Anderson step up in the late season, so again it made sense.

Releasing Damione Lewis: This is one I somewhat disagreed with, but given that he was a rotational player in a starter's role and making starter's money, it can be justified.

Releasing Landon Johnson: Come on

Releasing Brad Hoover: Did it hurt to see Hoover go? Sure, but he's been in decline for a while now. Back problems can do a lot of players in and can be especially tough for a fullback. Yes, we'll miss him, but as much as I hate to say it, the move made sense if you look at it from a business standpoint.

So looking at each one, all the decisions made this offseason can be justified from a football/business standpoint. Each of them would have just made just as much sense any other year, given the same set of circumstances in each individual situation. Throw in that some of them probably would have already been made in prior years had not cap constraints prevented it.

And seriously, looking at this list, outside of perhaps Peppers, is there really anybody on here that you can look at in their current condition and say with any credibility "boy it sure will be a lot tougher to win without them"?

Please :nonod:

If we're just tanking and don't care about winning, why are guys like Steve Smith and Chris Harris still here? they're older,and they each have some trade value. If you're just rebuilding, why not toss them too? Or for that matter, why re-sign a guy like Tyler Brayton? And why did you bother picking up good special teamers (I mean, outside of the fact that the team needed players like that, because after all we're not interested in winning).

"What about the lack of free agent activity?" you ask. To which I ask, "Have you ever watched a Panthers offseason before?" If you think this is unusual, you've probably not been paying attention.

But if you still want to buy into this line of thinking, go ahead.

While you're at it, commiserate with the Eagle fans, because apparently their owner has decided to tank the season too

I love how the media is taking this position. It will be even sweeter when we go 10-6 and make the playoffs.

[CRA]

Defensive line is a huge question mark on this team. Its a question because we dont know what we've got really.

Louis Leonard only only played in what 2 games? he looked pretty good to me tho.

Everette Brown will certainly see the field more, but he has'nt seen it enough for us to know exactly what we have in him.

Charles Johnson has shown flashes of brilliance but hasnt cracked the starting lineup yet

Tyler Brayton is solid and serviceable but not elite

Corey Irvin who we drafted last year spent the entire season on i.r

Tank Tyler is a big mofo and young, havent seen enough of him yet either to pass judgement.

Theres others as well but we have more questions than we do answers there. We wont know what weve got, good or bad until the season starts.

They have potential but will they live up to it? nobody knows yet but at the same time we cant declare they all suck yet either.

we actually do know what we have......even if they live up to there potential this year it is the weakest DL Fox has had. imo.

[CRA]

i see words that you post, but they all seem to be read as "imma dick imma dick imma dick imma dick"

yeah, ima dick b/c I don't spin the 2010 season to be a winning one? Nice.

I like what Carolina is doing. Big supporter of the direction we are headed. Just not willing to hype the 2010 season into something it isn't.

[Udogg]

You mean like hyping it into a rebuilding year?

[MaineManPanther]

Is Fox just gonna quit? If he quits, he voids his contract. Maybe the coach JR wants said he wants to see how the lockout goes.

As far as the players you listed....

Peppers- yes, he was not worth franchising again. But it's still up in the air as to how hard they tried to resign him to a long term contract. And before it gets said, "league sources tell me" is gossip. Facts are facts. Remember Phillip Rivers contract dispute? The team owner and GM said he could make a ton of bonuses- the small print said he had to win the next 5 Super Bowls to do so. It's just a case of "he said, she said", and it's over.

Jake- nobody questions the fact that he shouldn't be the starter. Let Moore play, if we want to "get younger". The fact that his contract was written with no escape clause is inexcusable, and the fact that whoever came up with that contract still has a job is even more inexcusable. He was cut so he could maybe land a starters job somewhere else, and we eat 12 million dollars. So, any time the "save money, smart business, etc" comes up, look back at the money we're paying Jake to play in Cleveland.

Hoover- wasn't costing that much, and Fiammetta isn't very good. The only hope we have is if Rosario can play more of an H-back, and he can block.

No. They are at least picking up draft picks by trading players. Our team will be filled with "compensatory picks and UFAs".

Hoover was 33 coming off some back injuries, iplaying one of the most brutal positions in football. When hoover was out we still managed over 130 yards per game.

If the details of peppers deal is 'up in the air", then we can't make a negative opinon about it cant we?

[CRA]

You mean like hyping it into a rebuilding year?

We cut every vet and starter w/ age.......nobody is being brought in......we will go to the draft and let the young guys grow into the starting roles. That is Carolina rebuilding.

[Udogg]

I think Fox has the best of both worlds tbh. If he wins with this roster he gets paid, if he has any semblance of success he get paid, if the team tanks he says it's because the team is rebuilding. I think the panthers made 2 years worth of decisions in one offseason so it seems like its a rebuilding process. However other than Julius and Hoover (debated by some). There won't be a huge drop in any position. It could be said that there is actually overall improvement since the "double agent" isn't at QB.

I really don't think anyone can paint what kind of season this is at this point. If we get a solid productive number 2 reciever through draft or FA then all of a sudden our offense is 20-30% better than last year. Maybe more if you count a possible upgrade at QB. However if that doesn't materialize and "core" players get traded then you cold say its rebuilding. If 1/2 of double trouble is traded then it definitely rebuilding time.

[Udogg]

We got every vet and starter w/ age.......nobody is being brought in......we will go to the draft and let the young guys grow into the starting roles. That is Carolina rebuilding.

Are we missing Peppers veteran leadership? Jake's steadying hand or Hoover's rock solid dependability?

[pstall]

There is a reason Fox hasn't gotten an extension yet. What else does he need to prove?

Between his contract, some other players that were let go contracts, this team is cutting bait.

They will lay low but try to cobble what they can to be competitive(translation: we KNOW we won't win, but we want to show effort on gameday).

Now. The chic thing is to do more with less. That can be done and teams are slowly jumping on board.

That's why you see teams dumping college hoops coaches after what Butler did. They are thinking to themselves, "you mean we pay someone making 10 times more than that guy, budget is 10 times more and yet they nearly won the whole thing". But they get more bang for thier buck?

When it comes to large money, those writing the checks have to become cold hearted at times and get it done on the bottom line and on the goal line.

[CRA]

Are we missing Peppers veteran leadership? Jake's steadying hand or Hoover's rock solid dependability?

we will miss Peppers' freakish play on the DL....a freak talent that let us get away w/ playing w/ sub par DTs and an average DE on the other side the past 2 seasons. Sure he didn't bring it every game......but the defense wasn't good every game. Look statistcally at his numbers the past two years and his play on the field.....they could easily be considered his best two years in Carolina.

Hoover is easily argued as the best blocking FB in the game the past two years when on the field. 2nd at worst during the past 2 years.

Jake is irrelevant in these talks.

[Wither]

And yet people still come into this thread trying to say they are rebuilding... jesus. They are preparing for the future while playing for the present. Translation: they are not tanking, rebuilding or any of that; they are going to be competitive while preparing for the future, like every other team every year (also known as: normal operating procedure).