Giants thought they would have to give up more in trade for Brian Burns

[PNW_PantherMan]

14 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

This is the reason future picks are valued less by GMs than current picks. Two future 1st with one 2 plus years away don’t hold the kind of value that 2 current 1st round picks do. It was still a bad trade to reject, but it looks worse as the years approach where the picks actually are/ would have been.

NFL front offices value winning NOW because if they don't, they won't be around later.  That's really the takeaway.  It's not unique to Scott Fitterer.  That's why the Rams made the insane offer in the first place.  That's why they've gone after almost every player they've acquired in the last 5-6 years.  They don't care about picks.  They're trying to win today.

Edited Thursday at 03:53 PM by PNW_PantherMan

[PNW_PantherMan]

27 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Now do morgan. 

It may have been the wrong thing to do, but he clearly was trying to move Burns so he could spend on the offensive line.  It's short term bias.  No team is gonna let a GM just cook for 3 years building up picks and not winning.

[strato]

52 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

Since I’ve been paying attention to Panthers football (started inn2092 season), they have NEVER been able to develop talent. They either draft HOF’ers/fringe HOF’ers, or people that are out of the nfl in 3 years. Rarely in between. FAs 99% of the time come to Charlotte to grab a check and retire. Good FAs: Greg, Norwell, Proehl and Luvu. I’m sure there’s more, but the list is short. 

2003 was lightning in a freaking bottle. Jake that year was a really good qb, and the absolute perfect pairing with a developing Smitty, but that season doesn’t happen without 89, Peppers and Morgan. Same with 2005. 

2015. Men among men…

Seasons that we don’t draft a HOFer on both sides of the ball, are either duds or barely .500, we’ll get em next year. Marty at least knew a blue chip player when he saw one. It’s been the only hope we’ve had for a good season for 20 years. 

 

I have seen another post somewhere recently that says we signed Greg Olsen. He was a trade, with Chicago ftr. An actual great trade. 

[Gapanthersfan]

23 minutes ago, strato said:

I have seen another post somewhere recently that says we signed Greg Olsen. He was a trade, with Chicago ftr. An actual great trade. 

I keep doing that. Thank you for correcting and furthering my point. 

[Waldo]

2 hours ago, strato said:

These are higher picks, easier to find starters, and I am gonna hold that the coaching was failing players. How many coaches and OCs have there been? So maybe things are a bit different with a unified staff. We will get to see how they (staff) do with the ‘failures’ that are not too far gone. 

Horn we know, it is injuries and it wasn’t predictable (like people may feel about the new RB).

Icky looked really bad last year, yep he sure did. But not as horrible the first year. So we will see. 

Good lord I agree on Young being a huge mistake but they may be able to coach him up and scheme things to where he is maybe 50% of what was hoped for. 

These second round receivers, we have had crap QB play and that does not help them. The multiple OCs and HCs certainly doasn’t. I am just saying the players could have talent but the coaches we had were failing them and the QBs we had were failing them. Where was any continuity for these young players? That poo is very important. (and we know the don’t All pan out regardless of anything else)

I have been a hard pessimist the last 6 years, and think they earned every bit of fail that came to them (and trickled down to us) , at the same time if you can’t think there could have been other possible outcomes with different people involved, you have out pessimisted me. That is a chore, congratulations. 

Horn was always the wrong pick for other reasons but he just turned out to be injury prone, it's not fair but that's a miss and a risk in the NFL. Icky was always a project, needed a lot of work in pass protect and I really liked him as a prospect, so that goes along with what I said about projects not working out here for the reasons I laid out and a bit of what you said that in the end for all of those reasons projects have a hard go here with the turnover and competence issues throughout. If they get mediocre from Young in the end they should still be picking another QB next year anyways, other than becoming a franchise QB he will be a big failure and a giant area to improve. The days where the 1st pick was at least the one positive which no longer exist. Even Brown, a very good player, does not produce at the level he was drafted vs Moore who produced nothing but 1000 yard seasons without a good QB play. 

We just drafted a 2nd round WR by moving up one spot. It starts with the wrong people picking which is the norm now with Tepper in charge. I can't believe you believe that Tepper can fall into a winning situation given how his hiring has gone. Like FKD said it could easily be another 6 or 16 years before he gets his head out of his butt using the Browns as a legitimate example. That's not pessimism but a very real possibility given the recent history here. 

[strato]

I hear you. Tepper, as far as I am concerned, the worst is over with him.

Maybe not but i have put the bar at a single season without him pulling a Tepper. 

I do believe Dan Morgan understands talent. I think Canales knopws what he wants, and I think they are two men that will be in sync which will really help things. Maybe I am a fool for thinking that anything will ever be better. 

 

I am giving all of them a year without bitching about them... in terms of they need to be gone. I am about to bail if Young sucks again and they don’t bring in an upgrade. Which, I would not release him after year two no matter what you are paying him anyway and will need a backup. 

 

Maybe he will be better, maybe they all will. I am not saying they are winning anything, just want to see the direction reverse. 

 

[Gapanthersfan]

You cut bait on quitters. Quitters never win. Morgan was a DAWG. Bro still stares holes in people. He knows what he wants, and it damn sure wasn’t Burns. Bryce needs to watch his back. Aw shucks, good game, we’ll get em next time… No pampering this kid. No kid gloves. No worrying about self esteem. Push him to be better and expect better. The team can’t see a double standard. 

With every fiber of my being I hope Tepper has realized that a football team needs football players. 

[Chad_Cota]

When is the last time we actually won a trade. Holding out hope for Dionte Johnson and the Rams 2nd next year. 

[Waldo]

3 hours ago, strato said:

I hear you. Tepper, as far as I am concerned, the worst is over with him.

Maybe not but i have put the bar at a single season without him pulling a Tepper. 

I do believe Dan Morgan understands talent. I think Canales knopws what he wants, and I think they are two men that will be in sync which will really help things. Maybe I am a fool for thinking that anything will ever be better. 

 

I am giving all of them a year without bitching about them... in terms of they need to be gone. I am about to bail if Young sucks again and they don’t bring in an upgrade. Which, I would not release him after year two no matter what you are paying him anyway and will need a backup. 

 

Maybe he will be better, maybe they all will. I am not saying they are winning anything, just want to see the direction reverse. 

 

Morgan's first offseason and daft made me think he doesn't understand talent. He looks a lot more like Fritters than he does some talent guru. I think Morgan will be another Fritterer, a likable guy who just isn't good enough no matter how much everyone likes them. It's literally why he got the job as quoted by one of the people that owns the team. 

Canales is incredibly young and inexperienced and the hiring process was tainted with Caldwell giving the vote to whoever Tepper wanted anyways even with the consultants sitting in that process...not to mention promoting the AGM who is his friend.

I'm not giving them anything they don't earn. I was thoroughly unimpressed with the process or outcome as I have been with the offseason approach. IF I am proven wrong then they have found our saviors and if I am right again then it's just more poop for the Tepper sewer. 

Edited Thursday at 09:03 PM by Waldo

[PNW_PantherMan]

4 hours ago, Chad_Cota said:

When is the last time we actually won a trade. Holding out hope for Dionte Johnson and the Rams 2nd next year. 

Greg Olsen?

[strato]

3 hours ago, Waldo said:

Morgan's first offseason and daft made me think he doesn't understand talent. He looks a lot more like Fritters than he does some talent guru. I think Morgan will be another Fritterer, a likable guy who just isn't good enough no matter how much everyone likes them. It's literally why he got the job as quoted by one of the people that owns the team. 

Canales is incredibly young and inexperienced and the hiring process was tainted with Caldwell giving the vote to whoever Tepper wanted anyways even with the consultants sitting in that process...not to mention promoting the AGM who is his friend.

I'm not giving them anything they don't earn. I was thoroughly unimpressed with the process or outcome as I have been with the offseason approach. IF I am proven wrong then they have found our saviors and if I am right again then it's just more poop for the Tepper sewer. 

I mean, when I say improve, I am not expecting a lot. I’m, trying to be accommodating to the Bryce terrorists lest I get constantly harassed for stating what seems obvious (so I’ll just let it become obvious to them, eventually).

I believe we are going to disagree for a little while about Morgan. If these guys have coaching savvy that draft will be okay. At least whatever we did in the first 101 picks, and not expecting 4 home runs because that is not realistic. I don’t know who you count out though, other that the LB. And Morgan played LB in the league and was good so maybe he knows somnething we don’t. 

Jets preseason week let’s see what things look like for some of these players - while also remembering we aren’t realistically competing for anything this year, and the new people are young in their jobs. players, coaches, Morgan.... because we really don’t know they are gonna be. At least the rookies.

Edited Friday at 12:20 AM by strato

[SOJA]

Fitterer completely botched the burns saga no doubt 

 

but I do think it's funny all of these leaked and supposed trade offers are coming from other teams and not the Panthers

[MasterAwesome]

21 hours ago, Chad_Cota said:

When is the last time we actually won a trade. Holding out hope for Dionte Johnson and the Rams 2nd next year. 

Even if we draft a complete bust with the Rams' 2nd next year, we still technically "won" that trade from a value standpoint.  It was the "most expensive Day 2 overpay of at least the last six drafts".  I think we have a tendency to conflate draft trades together with the players drafted with those picks when they should be evaluated separately IMO.  If we do end up drafting a bust with that pick next year, I would still say we won on the trade, but we failed on the selection.

Also despite the compensation being minimal, I'd say getting a 6th + 7th for Robbie/Chosen Anderson and a 7th for Greg Little were both absolute steals lol.

Kelvin Benjamin for a 3rd + 7th was also a huge W.  He almost immediately washed out of the league afterwards.