The franchise guy Carolina Panthers Deep Dive

[PantherFanInPhilly]

17 hours ago, amcoolio said:

Some of the huddlers here will only be happy with Patrick Mahomes as our QB. They would legit complain if we had Josh Allen and pine for an upgrade. They won't admit it but they know who they are 

Listen, we've been a franchise for almost 30 years, and not once did most Panther fans like the quarterback we have. Cam reached I'd say an 80% approval rate in 2015, but it was back to being in the 50's following the SB. "We will never win anything with Cam as our QB" was a strong narrative on here after the SB.

This is the case for any team and their fans. I even know life long Chiefs fans that talk poo about Mahomes. 

[jayboogieman]

For those saying the guard play wasn't bad last year, just look at how the Panthers dropped 100 million on two new guards in free agency. You don't do that if you have even average guard play. The team knows what was there was bad. So, they went out and got an upgrade, and hopefully a massive upgrade at that.

Sadly, they left a huge gaping hole at center and that's going to bite them in the backside early and often during the season.

[outlaw4]

16 hours ago, Bear Hands said:

 

• Seeing his page and commentary on our defense really puts in perspective how much turnover we have.  It should feel like a much different team (hopefully better) especially that front-7.  Jewell is going to be better than people expect, he was super unheralded for Denver and is just a smart closer who played against the Chiefs routinely well.    

Based on how discussions go around here, you'd think this is a one player team. Finally, someone is mentioning the defense.

Honestly, I am rather unsettled about that side of the ball. Insisting we keep certain coaches between regimes blew up in our faces last season. The fact that we basically forced Evero to stay and put the bulk of the effort this offseason/draft on offense... say what you want about being a professional but I'd probably feel a fair amount of resentment in that situation. Also, losing Burns is going to hurt. How much, I just don't know. Finally, as the video mentioned, we are wafer thin with depth. That bit us losing Shaq in 2023 and with our luck, we'll lose a key defensive player we can't afford to lose this year.

The potential to have a significantly improved run defense might be our best chance. If we achieve the ground game play action offense and win TOP, that will keep the defense off the field longer. Their run game is stuffed and so a lot more third and long.

[CRA]

31 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

For those saying the guard play wasn't bad last year, just look at how the Panthers dropped 100 million on two new guards in free agency. You don't do that if you have even average guard play. The team knows what was there was bad. So, they went out and got an upgrade, and hopefully a massive upgrade at that.

Sadly, they left a huge gaping hole at center and that's going to bite them in the backside early and often during the season.

I'm not sure there is even a troll account that has claimed the G play wasn't bad last year. 

I think some don't think you can use the bad G play to explain everything away.  NFL is full of bad OL play every year.   And studs still generally find ways to shine more than BY did last year. 

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, outlaw4 said:

Based on how discussions go around here, you'd think this is a one player team. Finally, someone is mentioning the defense.

Honestly, I am rather unsettled about that side of the ball. Insisting we keep certain coaches between regimes blew up in our faces last season. The fact that we basically forced Evero to stay and put the bulk of the effort this offseason/draft on offense... say what you want about being a professional but I'd probably feel a fair amount of resentment in that situation. Also, losing Burns is going to hurt. How much, I just don't know. Finally, as the video mentioned, we are wafer thin with depth. That bit us losing Shaq in 2023 and with our luck, we'll lose a key defensive player we can't afford to lose this year.

The potential to have a significantly improved run defense might be our best chance. If we achieve the ground game play action offense and win TOP, that will keep the defense off the field longer. Their run game is stuffed and so a lot more third and long.

I still think Luvu hurts more than Burns.  Luvu has either been our best or 2nd best defensive player the last 2 seasons.  Burns was #3. 

[strato]

IOL was very bad, at times. 

Zavala may have been the worst I have ever seen on a field in the NFL on the OL. Got his azz beat up and down the field. Non intelligent, the lot of them. Any kind of stunt would leave those guys standing around looking for someone to block while a rusher passes him where they aren’t looking. 

I get that when you have free rushers coming at you right off the snap, you can’t do a whole lot about it.

There other times, numerous times, when he left the pocket and ran into stuff where had he just stayed or stepped up, he is in business. Where the pocket was clean and he didn’t see the open man. Where he misfired or just panicked and threw it OB. 

That IOL needed fixing anyway so we could get a yard when we need a yard, and have to put in Dalton for the sneak. Lol.

edit: fwiw on D, I fear the ILB coverage is going to get exploited big time. No pass rush, so to get one they’ll be a man short somewhere in coverage, I don’t like it a lot.

But I would not have liked paying Burns enough to make him happy either. But they slacked off on pass rushers in the draft in favor of accommodating the offensive skill positions. 

Edited May 29 by strato

[Bear Hands]

2 hours ago, outlaw4 said:

Based on how discussions go around here, you'd think this is a one player team. Finally, someone is mentioning the defense.

Honestly, I am rather unsettled about that side of the ball. Insisting we keep certain coaches between regimes blew up in our faces last season. The fact that we basically forced Evero to stay and put the bulk of the effort this offseason/draft on offense... say what you want about being a professional but I'd probably feel a fair amount of resentment in that situation. Also, losing Burns is going to hurt. How much, I just don't know. Finally, as the video mentioned, we are wafer thin with depth. That bit us losing Shaq in 2023 and with our luck, we'll lose a key defensive player we can't afford to lose this year.

The potential to have a significantly improved run defense might be our best chance. If we achieve the ground game play action offense and win TOP, that will keep the defense off the field longer. Their run game is stuffed and so a lot more third and long.

I think our run defense is set up for success and the LBs will be better than expected.  The IDL is stout (relatively speaking) and I'm very hopeful for Wallace with Jewell and Shaq there for him to learn behind for a year.  

But the secondary and pass rush are what concern me.  Wonnum & Clowney is probably our best edge rushing front, but Evero likes rotations (and blitzing) and I imagine Barno, DJJ, Leota, Chaisson and others could factor in (depending on who makes the 53).  Would be really nice if someone in those ranks could finally do something.  Or else, EDGE becomes a huge need going into 2025.  

Same goes for DB.  It's nice that Horn got his 5th year and Evero got a bunch of guys he's worked with before (Fuller, Hill, Scott), serviceable, but it's going to feel thin given the amount of 5 and 6 DB packages we run.  Fuller, Hill and Jackson are handy dandy guys who will occasionally get burnt but we're missing a focal point back there even if Horn is healthy. 

In this era of Panther football, I can't put much stock into guys like Chau Smith-Wade, Crumedy, etc.  Gotta hope they make the 53 first.   This is a year where you gotta just hope some of these 3rd-6th rounders turns into something back there while you've got a lot of placeholders or shorter contract guys not in the long term plans.  

 

[Bear Hands]

Something he didn't explicitly say but his analysis led to see is how they rebuilt this team:

They fortified the interior lines on both sides, and with what I see, there's a focus on either the run game or run defense.  They want to set up the quick passing schemes and spread zone runs..and defend against those as well, which are becoming the prominent offenses these days.  So that's nice to notice.       

Fortifying the lines, building out from there.  So WR and DB may still seem in development long term, but there's incremental improvement.  

Overall on offense - The Nijman insurance for Icky was arguably one of the smarter moves.  That and Dionte were probably our two most impactful signings from the perspective of becoming a consistent offense that can actually move the damn ball for the first time in years.  

 

 

[mrcompletely11]

6 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Something he didn't explicitly say but his analysis led to see is how they rebuilt this team:

They fortified the interior lines on both sides, and with what I see, there's a focus on either the run game or run defense.  They want to set up the quick passing schemes and spread zone runs..and defend against those as well, which are becoming the prominent offenses these days.  So that's nice to notice.       

Fortifying the lines, building out from there.  So WR and DB may still seem in development long term, but there's incremental improvement.  

Overall on offense - The Nijman insurance for Icky was arguably one of the smarter moves.  That and Dionte were probably our two most impactful signings from the perspective of becoming a consistent offense that can actually move the damn ball for the first time in years.  

 

 

we can agree to disagree and thats cool but I think we are a couple of injuries away from having the leagues worst defense. 

[Jackie Lee]

5 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Something he didn't explicitly say but his analysis led to see is how they rebuilt this team:

They fortified the interior lines on both sides, and with what I see, there's a focus on either the run game or run defense.  They want to set up the quick passing schemes and spread zone runs..and defend against those as well, which are becoming the prominent offenses these days.  So that's nice to notice.       

Fortifying the lines, building out from there.  So WR and DB may still seem in development long term, but there's incremental improvement.  

Overall on offense - The Nijman insurance for Icky was arguably one of the smarter moves.  That and Dionte were probably our two most impactful signings from the perspective of becoming a consistent offense that can actually move the damn ball for the first time in years.  

 

 

One of the major criticisms I saw from Bucs fans was him stubbornly trying to rune mid zone run concepts with rb's that weren't built for it. I think Chuba can do that effectively but just something to look out for. 

[Bear Hands]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

we can agree to disagree and thats cool but I think we are a couple of injuries away from having the leagues worst defense. 

I just think we're a solid, middle of the road situation with some upside.  Not top-10.  Floating around the teens, maybe up to 10 if we're lucky.  Probably end up low teens.    

Could honestly be similar to what we saw last year but with guys having more familiarity/fit with the 2-high shell and the Fangio-disciple defense.  I loved Luvu, but he was a liability in coverage at times and Jewell could very well be an upgrade.  He also knows the defense with experience w/both Fangio and Evero.  Burns is no doubt a substantial, but expected loss. 

We've gained much more competent DBs for Evero's scheme that know the calls and language but it's razor thin.  

And I'd say we improved our DL's run stopping ability with Robinson and Clowney in a big way, but again, one goes down, it gets a bit iffy.     

A few injuries and it could get ugly no doubt, depth is an issue.  It's thin.     

[Bear Hands]

11 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

One of the major criticisms I saw from Bucs fans was him stubbornly trying to rune mid zone run concepts with rb's that weren't built for it. I think Chuba can do that effectively but just something to look out for. 

Yeah, the other thing was the Bucs OL had some awful awful performances last year run-O wise.  Bredeson & Mauch (74th and 75th of 79 Guards PFF grades)..and then Hainsey was absolute crud - them getting Barton was big this year. 

White is alright but they gave him no room to run.   

 

[shaqattaq]

18 hours ago, Bear Hands said:

He's routinely a great watch.  Good content. 

• I like his optimism on Chubba in our scheme, allows us to bring in Brooks at an optimal pace relative to his recovery (who we got obviously to be our new guy, could become the focal point of this offense)
• The two news OGs will have no issue playing our offense coming from familiar schemes, one in Hunt being league top, is going to be huge for our running game more than anything.  I also liked him maintaining some optimism with Icky.  
• Seeing his page and commentary on our defense really puts in perspective how much turnover we have.  It should feel like a much different team (hopefully better) especially that front-7.  Jewell is going to be better than people expect, he was super unheralded for Denver and is just a smart closer who played against the Chiefs routinely well.    

Pie just for bringing this clusterfug of a thread back to topic, AND for actually watching the video before commenting.

We obviously have gone all in on offense, time for Bryce to put up or shut up. On defense we will definitely be watching the waivers to add depth to our LB's an secondary. The idea of Bootle or a late round rookie getting significant snaps WHEN Horn gets hurt scares the crap out of me. Evero will need to make chicken salad out of chicken poo for us do even be competitive.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Bear Hands said:

Yeah, the other thing was the Bucs OL had some awful awful performances last year run-O wise.  Bredeson & Mauch (74th and 75th of 79 Guards PFF grades)..and then Hainsey was absolute crud - them getting Barton was big this year. 

White is alright but they gave him no room to run.   

 

fair question, is when does scheme and play calling factor into a run game being league worst. 

I mean, we had virtually the no threat of attacking teams downfield.  Had really bad OL play.   Were probably one of if not the most predictable offenses in the NFL......and our lead back was (no disrespect) Hubbard .  AND we outperformed the Tampa run game.