Does anyone actually think Bryce will actually be good?

[Jackie Lee]

22 minutes ago, Mage said:

I'm still optimistic he can be a good QB.  And that if he does fail, I don't think size is the #1 reason why.  I'm not saying his small stature helps, but it isn't at the forefront of the issues he has a QB. 

One of the biggest improvements I would like to see is him being more decisive.  Not just as a passer but as a runner.  Maybe it was because he was shell-shocked by the midway point, but he took too long to make decisions such as when to escape from the pocket.  His footwork also needs to be worked on.  Neither of those are size issues.  Those are issues QBs of all sizes have.  

Some of his footwork issues are definitely tied to his height/size however you want to say it. Mainly the hesitancy to step into the pocket when there's pressure, the bunny hopping which inevitably gets his feet parallel. The latter also affects his timing, when he does see an open guy he's not ready to throw so he either uses all arm or wastes time resetting his feet and the ball gets out late. 

[Bear Hands]

At the end of the day, it's a no for me.

The speed & quickness in NFL clean pockets is not the same and he just looks overwhelmed to be able to stand in the pocket and make basic throws.  He just can't at times.  Bad OL or WRs be damned.  It was pretty obvious.  Poor mechanics, off balance throws, bad decision making, average arm.  The field felt like it was 200 yards watching him.  Surprisingly tough and has a good head on his shoulders, but that doesn't just offset his poor performance as a #1 overall selection.  

That's where I'm at, and I'll gladly be wrong if he comes out swinging.  

But am I saying he can't be a guy a team like SF could insert and make work? No.  He has the mentality, but it's right there for us to see now.  At his best, he's a middle of the road starter that could be on a playoff squad, maybe. Big maybe.  And that's just the reality. 

I don't see any traits that he's going to take the team on his back and win games.  Personally, the Bears game was the final straw for me. 

He's positioned himself into "prove-it" territory rather than, the idea that we saw flashes but he was hung out to dry.  

[ForJimmy]

9 minutes ago, rayzor said:

and regarding his deep ball throws...

looks like he can toss them without a lot of effort here and it looks like he's got the arm.

Deep ball passes are typically more of a WR stat. It’s why Tua’s deep ball game looked terrible before Hill/Waddle and much better when they arrived. The WRs make the adjustments and make the catches. Even Burrow mentioned “Chase is down the field somewhere. All I need to do is air it out.” If an arm is capable of getting the ball down the field the rest of the formula is timing and WR adjustments. 
The arm strength issue would fall more into zipping passes into tight places or making throws while avoiding pressure when your feet aren’t set IMO. 

[Bear Hands]

1 minute ago, Jackie Lee said:

Some of his footwork issues are definitely tied to his height/size however you want to say it. Mainly the hesitancy to step into the pocket when there's pressure, the bunny hopping which inevitably gets his feet parallel. The latter also affects his timing, when he does see an open guy he's not ready to throw so he either uses all arm or wastes time resetting his feet and the ball gets out late. 

I'm seeing what you see.  

A quick way to make it very apparent to even the casual is to just watch clips of Brees, Kyler or Russ and then go to Bryce.  It's what makes the larger media narrative that he's fine and we didn't give him enough super short-sighted.

He doesn't have a deliberate, sharp or efficient drop back.  He has this shallow walk and skip so he doesn't get back effectively enough to give himself lines of sight.  His demeanor and style should be reserved for a guy that's 6'3 plus.  He got used to this because he would roll out so much in school and find Jameson or Burton on the fly.    And because he gets lost in these shallow, collapsing pockets, he has nowhere to go and gets super frenetic.  

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Some of his footwork issues are definitely tied to his height/size however you want to say it. Mainly the hesitancy to step into the pocket when there's pressure, the bunny hopping which inevitably gets his feet parallel. The latter also affects his timing, when he does see an open guy he's not ready to throw so he either uses all arm or wastes time resetting his feet and the ball gets out late. 

Yeah, I'm just not sure he's going to be able to adapt to the "noisier" NFL pockets. He'd drop back a mile at Bama to give himself room to see. Just watch those highlights. He's taking the snap five yards deep then dropping back to 9-10 yards deep. You give NFL edge rushers that kind of angle and your OTs don't stand a chance.

[dave-o]

I will just say I hope he's saving his money...

[Jackie Lee]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I'm just not sure he's going to be able to adapt to the "noisier" NFL pockets. He'd drop back a mile at Bama to give himself room to see. Just watch those highlights. He's taking the snap five yards deep then dropping back to 9-10 yards deep. You give NFL edge rushers that kind of angle and your OTs don't stand a chance.

Yeah, in those highlights in that situation sure he was getting a decent ball 35+ yards in the air with his feet set decently. Conversely if you watch a game like Texas 2022 when he was getting consistent pressure all the bad footwork and inaccurate throws come out. That game was the major red flag for me and so far that's what we've seen week in and week out

[rayzor]

49 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Yeah, in those highlights in that situation sure he was getting a decent ball 35+ yards in the air with his feet set decently. Conversely if you watch a game like Texas 2022 when he was getting consistent pressure all the bad footwork and inaccurate throws come out. That game was the major red flag for me and so far that's what we've seen week in and week out

but that is something that can be corrected with the right coaching. that's why it's important for them to start with the fundamentals. it might not be something that any coach has picked out and tried to work on to this point in his career. or just something that he had a better handle on earlier, but got a bit sloppy on as he went on and learned to do his thing his way. 

at any rate, whatever footwork issues he has should be something that can be coached out.

[MHS831]

Initially, I wanted Stroud but I thought the trade up meant that, whoever they chose, it was for a reason.  There was no pressure to do anything for the entire scouting team to do other than investigate every aspect of the top 3 candidates.  Stroud had his question marks, and I think it is possible that he falters this year.  Bryce had a much worse situation here in Carolina because we neglected the OL, traded our #1 WR, did not pick WRs well in the draft, traded our pro bowl RB, and seem to disregard the TE position altogether.  Bozeman was not a good fit and we relied on an improved OL in 2022 to suggest that we were set there when we were far from it.  Fitterer had no vision, no grasp of talent, and everyone in the front office and on the coaching staff were pretending to be gurus.  Our coaching staff was a group of men earning a lifetime achievement paycheck.  It all goes back to the years of neglect for the OL.  My theory?  If Stroud had come to Carolina, he would be as mocked and ridiculed as Bryce Young.   No, he does not have a cannon.  Chad Pennington was a weak-armed QB who had success and would have been even better if it were not for injuries.  Smarts is important at QB, and so are mechanics.  Before you can address Young's mechanics, he needs an OL, Running game, and weapons.

We were not really able to run play action from under center for a few reasons--play action is not effective when you have to pass the ball--other than that, the QB must turn his back to the LOS for about 1.5 seconds.  When the QB has less than 2.5 seconds to pass the ball, that eliminates that part of the play book.  Heck, even the run option is minimized when there is immediate facial pressure.  SO those who want to talk about happy feet, bouncing, etc--they are symptoms of the problem, not the problem.  A weak arm?  Well, Young's arm is between Chad Pennington and Joe Montana--closer to Joe.  His are is not as weak as some think--but he has issues with the deep ball. When you are reacting to the defense and quickly have to pass, then that takes away the strength because you don't have the base to get power behind it. 

I still wish we had taken Stroud, but we have Young and if you toss him out before giving him support, you are not wise, unsmart, not unfoolish, and rather elite in your failure to attain mediocrity.  Expect growth.  How much? Nobody knows.

[*FreeFua*]

3 hours ago, CRA said:

And I have been a big XL guy/fan.  He know doubt was drafted because he fits a role that is in all the Os Canales has been around. 

my concern is Bryce, and it’s probably not a talent issue on this aspect.  Just a QB DNA thing.  I really think Canales and XL pair best with a gunslinger/risk taker.   You want to limit gunslinger with the run but then need the QB to go downfield aggressively.  

Bryce needs to simply play and be more aggressive downfield.   Which is easier said than done if not wired that way

Sam Howell could’ve been had for free

[DeadpoolPanther]

Not sure how to word this but I’ll try. I don’t have much faith Bryce can get that much better but I have faith that Canales can make things better for him. So I guess I’m saying yes, even if he doesn’t get better he can be better. There, that makes perfect sense.

[strato]

1 hour ago, *FreeFua* said:

Sam Howell could’ve been had for free

That's the thing. Not Howell for me, but I think there are people out there without the hype machine behind them that would be an upgrade. 

[BrisbanePanther]

4 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

Re set the 5 year rookie QB contract window and try again

I think it's worth taking a step back and looking at the impact of this on the NFL overall. It's like the league went from one extreme--rookies with no experience becoming the teams' highest paid players--to another--expecting rookies with no experience to play like they're the highest paid players. In both cases the vets get angry, and in both cases the rookies are under probably an unfair level of pressure created by a market not them individually. The vets also lose out because in the former case teams spent all their money on the rookie and not the supporting cast and now teams still don't spend money on the supporting cast when they don't know what they have with the rookie.

The Atlanta experiment will be good to watch for this, especially if Cousins was to lead them to 2-3 division titles (entirely possible). They spent a lot of high draft picks on skill position talent rather than a QB and brought him in via FA. Will they go away from him when it's time to pay the skill positions while Penix is still on his rookie deal? They were stupid, but might have stumbled onto another potential way to build a team.

[Waldo]

21 minutes ago, BrisbanePanther said:

I think it's worth taking a step back and looking at the impact of this on the NFL overall. It's like the league went from one extreme--rookies with no experience becoming the teams' highest paid players--to another--expecting rookies with no experience to play like they're the highest paid players. In both cases the vets get angry, and in both cases the rookies are under probably an unfair level of pressure created by a market not them individually. The vets also lose out because in the former case teams spent all their money on the rookie and not the supporting cast and now teams still don't spend money on the supporting cast when they don't know what they have with the rookie.

The Atlanta experiment will be good to watch for this, especially if Cousins was to lead them to 2-3 division titles (entirely possible). They spent a lot of high draft picks on skill position talent rather than a QB and brought him in via FA. Will they go away from him when it's time to pay the skill positions while Penix is still on his rookie deal? They were stupid, but might have stumbled onto another potential way to build a team.

Cousins can win the NFCS but he has won 1 playoff game ever. He isn't there for a SB but to take an easy division.

They are betting Penix can be more which is also what pisses Cousins off about that situation, it's the same thing he was running from in Minny. SF already did this to Jimmy G with 2 young QBs, they also handled it way better as far as I have heard, so it's not that new in Atlanata...even if they did their best at creating internal friction.