Panthers run ONE play on repeat

[frankw]

2 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

He didn't even throw at the combine so his velocity isn't technically on record. He didn't want to throw next to Stroud/AR/Levis who all threw around 60mph

It wasn't even just not wanting to have his numbers under the microscope compared to the big arm QB's it was just not wanting that data available overall. Both he and his agents/inner circle knew they couldn't let that happen because it would have torched his draft stock. At the end of the day to me that's not the mark of someone who wants to be a champion or a leader. That's just someone who wants to get drafted high at all costs and then worry about the rest later. That's who we decided to mortgage the future for and make the face of our franchise. It was an enormous gamble that for some reason many people lauded as a slam dunk at the time. Sports will humble you quick. If there's anything we as Panthers fans can say for certain that's it.

[Jackie Lee]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

I'm not arguing any of that. All I know is what was posted for their measured ball velocity in a controlled environment. 

Where are these controlled environment velocity listings? Only thing I've seen was Bryce was listed as "did not throw" at the combine

[Navy_football]

Ya'll do realize that consensus #1 pick QBs rarely participate in the combine... right?

Nothing to gain. Only to lose. That's not a scammer. That's just good business sense. If I knew a kid that was the consensus #1 pick in the draft, there is no way in heck I'd let him go to the combine. Even a small injury could knock him out of the #1 spot. There just isn't a reason to go. 

[frankw]

13 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Ya'll do realize that consensus #1 pick QBs rarely participate in the combine... right?

People have been saying stuff like this for years. Here's one in relation to the 2018 draft when this topic was once again a source of debate.

That list is.....rough.

[PNW_PantherMan]

4 minutes ago, frankw said:

People have been saying stuff like this for years. Here's one in relation to the 2018 draft when this topic was once again a source of debate.

That list is.....rough.

Real question is that list any better or worse than the overall pool of QBs drafted early vs successful ones?  The hit rate is stupid low before you narrow it down to guys that didn’t throw.

Edited May 13, 2024 by PNW_PantherMan

[frankw]

8 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Real question is that list any better or worse than the overall pool of QBs drafted early vs successful ones?  The hit rate is stupid low before you narrow it down to guys that didn’t throw.

When you say early do you mean first round in general or top 5? If you're going top 5 top 3 or 1st overall then yeah you're going to find a ton of busts.

That's why I didn't want to trade up for a QB and if I did Stroud was the only choice.

And that brings us back to the issue at hand. If you're trading up you trade up for the jackpot. The best arm talent in the draft. We chose the low end arm talent to trade up for. Just awful management. But that's a Tepper team for ya.

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, Jackie Lee said:

Where are these controlled environment velocity listings? Only thing I've seen was Bryce was listed as "did not throw" at the combine

It's where they measure the release velocity. Someone posted a snapshot from CJ's. Just look up the results if it concerns you. They just mentioned the top 4 guys velocity results. What I heard there wasn't a lot of difference in the 4. The screen capture showed CJ's so the other 3 did it some point while there. They gave out Young's so he had to do it at some point.

I should have said same conditions. They stand at the same line and throw to the same spot.

Edited May 13, 2024 by Jon Snow

[Jackie Lee]

Just now, Jon Snow said:

It's where they measure the release velocity. Someone posted a snapshot from CJ's. Just look up the results if it concerns you. They just mentioned the top 4 guys velocity results. What I heard there wasn't a lot of difference in the 4. The screen capture showed CJ's so the other 3 did it some point while there. They gave out Young's so he had to do it at some point.

Young's velocity isn't posted anywhere online that I can find, because he didn't throw at the combine. I know the other guys threw around 59-62

[Jon Snow]

Just now, Jackie Lee said:

Young's velocity isn't posted anywhere online that I can find, because he didn't throw at the combine. I know the other guys threw around 59-62

Well I certainly saw it and heard it during the broadcast. I sat through the entire live broadcast that day and when I heard his velocity I was actually shocked it was in the mid 50's. He could have had it measured somewhere else for all I know. Anyway, whatever it was its not far less because that was a concern of mine as well.

[frankw]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

Well I certainly saw it and heard it during the broadcast. I sat through the entire live broadcast that day and when I heard his velocity I was actually shocked it was in the mid 50's. He could have had it measured somewhere else for all I know. Anyway, whatever it was its not far less because that was a concern of mine as well.

All anyone could do pre-draft was speculate based on his college tape.

Here's a fun reddit thread that has aged impeccably.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Texans/comments/zk9hlf/despite_his_size_bryce_young_has_excellent_a_but/

Edited May 13, 2024 by frankw

[Jon Snow]

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

All anyone could do pre-draft was speculate based on his college tape.

Here's a fun reddit thread that has aged impeccably.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Texans/comments/zk9hlf/despite_his_size_bryce_young_has_excellent_a_but/

I wish I can remember who the commentator was the said what the results were back then. They never show qbs actually doing it and they all do not do it at the same time. I'm not sure why it was brought up anyway but I found it interesting that they were that close. But of those things really matter to you I'm sure you can find it somewhere. 

Edited May 13, 2024 by Jon Snow

[frankw]

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I wish I can remember who the commentator was the said what the results were back then. They never show qbs actually doing it and they all do not do it at the same time. I'm not sure why it was brought up anyway but I found it interesting that they were that close. But of those things really matter to you I'm sure you can find it somewhere. 

I'll look but so far I don't know where or when that would have taken place. When he was at Alabama? And if that's the case we already know how they embellish things in relation to height and weight so it would have to be taken with a heavy grain of salt if such were the case.

At the end of the day knowing what we know now after their rookie seasons the tape that we all argued over behind each QB prospect didn't lie. The proof is in the pudding as they say right?

[strato]

A Prius is okay on a lot of shorter passes but deeper it is like Bryce needs to hit a 7 iron and CJ a 9. Advantage: not Bryce. I know, mixed metaphors... 

That’s why minus an S2 test of course, I’d always take the true no doubt NFL thrower for the job of NFL QB. It is so simple sometimes, why do people talk themselves into this stuff?

There was no question I had about Stroud and his arm ability. Very good (conservatively).

Anyhow the force of gravity plays. Given two identical balls, gravity is grabbing the slower ball sooner and harder. It is probably a graduated thing, I went to music school not math school. 

It’s something we see and instinctively know but it takes a scholar to explain why  it did that. 

Edited May 13, 2024 by strato

[Bear Hands]

velocity discussion aside, it will definitely be interesting to see him this year, compare eye test to last, and what iffy tendencies carry over. 

We all will be able to tell fairly quickly if we're looking at the same guy as last season, or a refreshed prospect fitting better in a better situation.  

In short-It will be obvious if he's a fish out of water rather quickly after a full offseason in the big leagues

long form-

We saw a glimpse of maybe an above average/top-15 starter-level potential, at his best (and that was like 1 game).  Otherwise, his "good" felt kind of like what you saw when the Raiders threw in O'Connell or the Giants with the Italian dude and they had their moments.  The Colts and Texans were simply different teams, for the better, with their guys on the field respectively. 

My biggest concern is still-- let's say the conditions are optimal, what will Bryce do to take it to the next level and put the team on his back?  I want to see glimpses of what that could be, not just elevated stat lines in a more friendly system.  This is going to take more than mostly looking like the same guy and having a handful more Green Bay 2023-level games.

This is about getting his feet and arm coordinated, footwork better, drop backs more consistent, pocket awareness elevated, throws more deliberate, reads/head movement in pocket, there's just a lot that needs to be kicked up a notch and it will be easy to see if it's the same guy or not rather soon.