Where would the Panthers be if they sat Bryce Young last season?

[CRA]

27 minutes ago, mountainpantherfan2 said:

That's a great analysis!  

So, with that analysis, how do you think Bryce had the game he had vs Green Bay.  Was it that the Packer's defense was just giving him those ideal scenarios or was it an anomaly from Bryce? 

how would I describe Green Bay....

well, I'd say Green Bay was up 30-16 with less than 8 minutes left to play.   Which is the window where defensive pretty consistently mismanage games and give up offense.   Which we generally agree on around here as a thing that happens. 

Almost 50% of Bryce's yards came in that small window.  And GB helped him out with 15 yard add on penalties on the two scoring drives. 

Big picture, I think GB just played bad at the end more so than us playing great.   

 

[mountainpantherfan2]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

hard to tell sarcasm sometimes. 

I mean, look I said, before the season started the org set Bryce up to fail (big picture)......I have never been it's an all Bryce guy.  Shoot, I still think he is going into the season with weak options at the 3 spots that matter most if Bryce is your QB.  And top it off, I think he is paired once again with a scheme that isn't meant for him.  I just don't get drafting him if you weren't going to cater to him.  It would like drafting Cam and have him mimic 2nd half of his career Tom Brady on O.  It doesn't fit.  Say what you will about them, but when Ron/Hurney drafted Cam....they went all in day 1 on the type QB he was.  Scheme, plays and talent.  It got him up and running instantly. 

but then Bryce also highlighted his own issues.  And he has some big ones given he was a #1 overall draft pick.  

and I still feel, they are not setting him up to reach whatever ceiling he has. 

 

I hated the trade up more so than draft pick last year.  I just didn't see any of the options being that for sure #1 overall, franchise QB.  I didn't even think they should draft a QB #9.  I feel like the sweet spot to draft a QB is between picks 11-50.  And don't do it when you are desperate for one.

But you're right, it didn't seem like that then tried to build the team around Bryce's strengths. I would say they are doing better at that this year.  And the scheme has helped other QB's in the past.  Hoping for the best but not very hopeful.  

[CRA]

26 minutes ago, strato said:

I am not sure there is a coach that can shine Bryce Young to be what he is not (and I feel will never be), in the NFL. If you can’t hit a deep ball you are just no big threat to an NFL defense, even the bad ones. 

 

yeah, prime GOATS can small ball you to death.  But they are doing it after essentially building HOF careers and taking all that knowledge and ability into attempting that. 

I don't think late stage Brees and Brady had great physical tools.  But they had HOF brains to pair with their weaked arms.  And late Brady probably had the best pocket game in NFL history that help max out his arm. 

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, mountainpantherfan2 said:

I hated the trade up more so than draft pick last year.  I just didn't see any of the options being that for sure #1 overall, franchise QB.  I didn't even think they should draft a QB #9.  I feel like the sweet spot to draft a QB is between picks 11-50.  And don't do it when you are desperate for one.

But you're right, it didn't seem like that then tried to build the team around Bryce's strengths. I would say they are doing better at that this year.  And the scheme has helped other QB's in the past.  Hoping for the best but not very hopeful.  

I was pretty fuging vocal about not trading up, rolling out MC and then go from there.  But the panthers are going to panther and we more then likely will be starting over again in 25

[strato]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, prime GOATS can small ball you to death.  But they are doing it after essentially building HOF careers and taking all that knowledge and ability into attempting that. 

I don't think late stage Brees and Brady had great physical tools.  But they had HOF brains to pair with their weaked arms.  And late Brady probably had the best pocket game in NFL history that help max out his arm. 

I don’t like it, but they had the refs too. 

[strato]

19 minutes ago, mountainpantherfan2 said:

I hated the trade up more so than draft pick last year.  I just didn't see any of the options being that for sure #1 overall, franchise QB.  I didn't even think they should draft a QB #9.  I feel like the sweet spot to draft a QB is between picks 11-50.  And don't do it when you are desperate for one.

But you're right, it didn't seem like that then tried to build the team around Bryce's strengths. I would say they are doing better at that this year.  And the scheme has helped other QB's in the past.  Hoping for the best but not very hopeful.  

I, unpopularly, hold the opinion that Reich was shocked at Young’s lacks. What he could not do. I think that is why we saw the neutered offense. That I never expected. I didn’t expect the lack of gadget plays and stuff schemed to hide Young’s inadequacies.

I think Brown being overly involved had something to do with Frank apparently just checking out on the reimagining of the offense after what they saw Jets scrimmage week (the week the pads came out). edit I am not sure exactly when Frank really checked out but he obviously did. 

Edited May 3 by strato

[mountainpantherfan2]

10 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I was pretty fuging vocal about not trading up, rolling out MC and then go from there.  But the panthers are going to panther and we more then likely will be starting over again in 25

Wow, completely forgot about Matt Coral!

Just think, we go with Coral and sign Dalton as backup.  Trade Bruns to the Rams and keep DJ Moore.  Maybe draft Gibbs at 9.  

Even if the season ended the same, we would have had the 1st overall pick and the 19th overall pick from Rams in this draft.  Still had DJ Moore.  And had two 1st round picks in 2025.

God, Fitterer was an idiot!

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

well, the argument was made that from Stroud to Mahomes.....no QB would have done better here.  How you just going to, not say something lol 

While I think it'd be silly for anyone to argue that Mahomes wouldn't have done any better here (and is obviously leagues above Bryce), it's worth mentioning...I watched the Raiders/Chiefs game late last year and man did Mahomes and that offense look like absolute trash in a game where Mahomes was continuously running for his life behind an o-line that couldn't block for poo, while trying to throw to receivers getting zero separation, and getting zero help from his run game.  You know, the norm for Bryce every week.  It really did look like I was watching a Panthers game.  That was a game against Aidan O'Connell with a final stat line of 9/21 for 62 yards 0 TDs and yet Mahomes and the Chiefs managed 7 total points up until 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter in arguably garbage time.

[frankw]

Remember when Bryce Young was a "mini Mahomes" in the making?

Now he needs elite weapons across the board lol.

Gotta love being a Panthers fan.

[CRA]

18 hours ago, mountainpantherfan2 said:

But you're right, it didn't seem like that then tried to build the team around Bryce's strengths. I would say they are doing better at that this year.  And the scheme has helped other QB's in the past.  Hoping for the best but not very hopeful.  

Yeah, my issue with the Canales pairing….is his history is all tied the deep balls.  Saw it last year with Baker.  Deep ball was the basis for Geno’s comeback story and Wilson has always been a chuck it downfield QB.  First big investment by Canales was a WR that 100% fit that philosophy in Leggette. 

Thats not Bryce. He doesn’t fit what Canales history is.  Just like he didn’t fit Frank.  Only real argument I got is maybe this staff is young enough to deviate from what they have been around and been in this league.  Historically, coaches struggle with that. 

Bryce specific, just feels similar to last year.  He is the square peg to the round hole. 

Geno seems to be the one people really like to point to for why Canales is going to pull it off but…Geno’s aired it out and was the best deep passer in the NFL that season. 

Nearly half of Smith's 30 touchdown passes came on deep passes, and his 13 downfield scores led all quarterbacks. This rate of success was stellar: 25.4 percent of Smith's deep attempts produced touchdowns in 2022. With this in mind, it's easy to see how he finished with a deep passing EPA of +42.3

https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-nfl-deep-passers-of-2022-geno-smith-tua-tagovailoa-excel-a#:~:text=Nearly half of Smith's 30,deep passing EPA of %2B42.3.

[Gapanthersfan]

17 hours ago, strato said:

I, unpopularly, hold the opinion that Reich was shocked at Young’s lacks. What he could not do. I think that is why we saw the neutered offense. That I never expected. I didn’t expect the lack of gadget plays and stuff schemed to hide Young’s inadequacies.

I think Brown being overly involved had something to do with Frank apparently just checking out on the reimagining of the offense after what they saw Jets scrimmage week (the week the pads came out). edit I am not sure exactly when Frank really checked out but he obviously did. 

There is nothing unpopular at all about your opinion. How everything played out on the field backs it up.

Bryce starts the season with much fanfare, gives the atl game away, and showed anyone who watched that his arm talent was shockingly bad. bad look, so after a few weeks, the team cooks up a fake injury that nobody saw, presumably to decide what direction to go next.

Enter Dalton for one game while Bryce is seen walking comfortably on the sideline, smiling and yucking it up like he’s a 5 year vet. 

Dalton performs admirably given the circumstances (please no Dalton ve Bryce retort). The contrast between the two was so strong that it’s still debated today. If Dalton’s performance was similar to what Bryce had done up to that point, I truly believe they would have sat Bryce longer, but it wasn’t.  Dalton relied on vet savvy and a better arm. It’s debatable how many games that gets us. Meaningless to fans, but not to players with serious financial incentives on the line. 

What it really was, was a ‘young man (see what I did?)’ playing a grown man’s game, who lacked basic fundamentals and essential physical talent, behind a line that was VERY ill suited for the scheme forced on them, WRs who looked completely confused and unmotivated, with a back stabbing coaching staff in give up mode, GM who I wouldn’t trust to organize my cooking utensil drawer and an owner who meets with coaches every week and tells them which plays he likes and which ones he doesn’t. 

Bryce doesn’t get a mulligan, but I’m willing to give him a ‘my bad’ from the team. Last season stunk worse than Bigfoot’s di**. It literally can’t get ANY worse than the unwatchable sh** show that was last year. 

I have to see a monumental change in his physical ability and overall confidence. I have to see that he found a laser arm, somewhere, in the offseason, or everything else is irrelevant. 

[PNW_PantherMan]

22 minutes ago, CRA said:

 Thats not Bryce. He doesn’t fit what Canales history is.  Just like he didn’t fit Frank.  Only real argument I got is maybe this staff is young enough to deviate from what they have been around and been in this league.  Historically, coaches struggle with that. 

That's really unlikely to happen.  The reality is, they are building for what Canales wants to do.  That's what all coaches do.  And if Bryce can't do that, he's another peg that has to be replaced.

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

That's really unlikely to happen.  The reality is, they are building for what Canales wants to do.  That's what all coaches do.  And if Bryce can't do that, he's another peg that has to be replaced.

And I’m fine with that.   But, with an impatient owner….that carries high odds of just him employing a new HC in the not distant future. 

The “we will see if the scheme that doesn’t fit our #1 overall pick QB works or not” approach seems like a rocky plan for all. 

If I was Canales I would give it shot but demanded I need to be able to sign a legit backup QB in case what I was given just doesn’t work and can transition at the end of the year 

[strato]

30 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

That's really unlikely to happen.  The reality is, they are building for what Canales wants to do.  That's what all coaches do.  And if Bryce can't do that, he's another peg that has to be replaced.

It has come down to.. I don’t see what Young does, that virtually every other NFL QB can’t do as well or better. Like, there is nothing I can think of. There must be something but I can’t find it. 

Who has a weaker arm? Most players, you say okay a weak arm maybe but xxxx makes for it. What is his xxxx? 

They did allow him to do a QB sneak, I think, but he has to be one of the last guys you'd call a keeper for. A designated Hail Mary thrower was put in the lineup for him. 

Canales has his work cut out.