Where would the Panthers be if they sat Bryce Young last season?

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Saying he wouldnt have survived would imply that Bryce and Dalton are the same QB. We honestly gonna forget Dalton has 10 plus years in the league has seen every situation and circumstance, BRYCE PLAYED LIKE A ROOKIE and made ROOKIE MISTAKES/DECISIONS . Dalton is not a rookie and has too much experience in the league to imply he would have went down the same path. That is the inconsistency in this discussion. 

Dalton is also pushing 40 year of age and isn't Tom Brady.   So yeah, they aren't the same QB.  Bryce is quicker at this point and we saw Bryce's tiny little self escape a lot.  Dalton took 3 sacks in the one game he played.  And was frankly lucky it was so few. 

again, Dalton on MUCH better teams compared to the 2024 Panthers was about a 6-7 win QB.  So again, I don't think Dalton is achieving that same bar with the 2024 Panthers.  Scheme sucked, OL sucked, skill players were weak. 

[ForJimmy]

What if I told you people can expect more from Bryce AND think Dalton wouldn't have done any better...  It doesn't have to be one or the other.  Dalton's game against Seattle is nothing special and Bryce underperformed what we expected.  Both are true.  

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Dalton is also pushing 40 year of age and isn't Tom Brady.   So yeah, they aren't the same QB.  Bryce is quicker at this point and we saw Bryce's tiny little self escape a lot. 

again, Dalton on MUCH better teams compared to the 2024 Panthers was about a 6-7 win QB.  So again, I don't think Dalton is achieving that same bar with the 2024 Panthers.  Scheme sucked, OL sucked, skill players were weak. 

and people call this "cope" when others have said it.  I'm not sure they know what that words means or it's simply the word of the year, maybe both?

[frankw]

39 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Frank? What game did Sam Darnold play over his entire time in Carolina where he look remotely as good as Daltons one game against Seattle? Name one. Not even stats wise, with a much better supporting cast.

Agree Bryce needs to play better. The oline needs to be better. The receivers need to be better. The TEs need to be better. The running backs need to be better. The scheme and playcalling need to be better. Yet, some are hung up on one player not elevating all those weaknesses. But you're right, barring injuries, we'll know more by November-ish.

Darnold looks worse the more he plays.

But overall they are same tier. Both can make some big plays. But game to game starting it's eventually going to get bad.

Both are good guys and likeable. Bryce Young is likeable too. But in terms of performance the truth and real world results are all that matters in football. In that regard we need to see Bryce Young look significantly better than any of the riff raff we've seen the last few years. For all of our sakes let's hope that happens

[CPF4LIFE]

24 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

What if I told you people can expect more from Bryce AND think Dalton wouldn't have done any better...  It doesn't have to be one or the other.  Dalton's game against Seattle is nothing special and Bryce underperformed what we expected.  Both are true.  

What if i told you specifically I referenced the games we could have won with Dalton and my question still wasnt answered? He says Dalton wouldnt have survived that many games but the games i referenced were at the very beginning of the season and the middle so Dalton wouldnt have survived the begining of the season? Thats sounds like a pretty big reach and if you tally those games up thats atleast 6-7 wins. Nobody is saying we would have been a top 3 team in the NFC and you wont find any post of someone saying that. But with what Dalton could have given us considering how these games played out and being in a crappy division there would have been more success. It aint crazy to say at all.

[CRA]

18 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

What if i told you specifically I referenced the games we could have won with Dalton and my question still wasnt answered? He says Dalton wouldnt have survived that many games but the games i referenced were at the very beginning of the season and the middle so Dalton wouldnt have survived the begining of the season? Thats sounds like a pretty big reach and if you tally those games up thats atleast 6-7 wins. Nobody is saying we would have been a top 3 team in the NFC and you wont find any post of someone saying that. But with what Dalton could have given us considering how these games played out and being in a crappy division there would have been more success. It aint crazy to say at all.

how do you know we would have won simply by inserting Dalton.  Literally everything that did happen, would no longer exist.  Everything changes.   Different game plans, games, literally everything that happened no longer exists. 

Dalton didn't even win the Seattle game.  

and again, 6-7 wins is where Dalton was when he played on a much better Cowboys team and Saints team.  They had better OLs, better skill talent and better offensive playcalling.   So yeah, Dalton wasn't reaching THAT with the 2024 Panthers that was bad everywhere. 

Dalton would have won games where opponents just had bad days.  Who knows when or where those were coming.   We were poorly coached with bad talent overall.  Dalton wasn't overcoming that.  Which is largely how Bryce got his.   We beat Atlanta not scoring a TD.  And the Texans laid an egg. 

I'll concede we probably win more games than 2 if Dalton could of stayed healthy.  But I can't really go past about 4ish. 

 

 

[CPF4LIFE]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

how do you know we would have won simply by inserting Dalton.  Literally everything that did happen, would no longer exist.  Everything changes.   Different game plans, games, literally everything that happened no longer exists. 

Dalton didn't even win the Seattle game.  

and again, 6-7 wins is where Dalton was when he played on a much better Cowboys team and Saints team.  They had better OLs, better skill talent and better offensive playcalling.   So yeah, Dalton wasn't reaching THAT with the 2024 Team that was bad everywhere. 

 

 

 

Because it goes back to what i said earlier in my original post. We had a rookie in those games making ROOKIE MISTAKES, if you remove those are you saying without a shadow of a doubt we still lose those games against those teams? Falcons, Saints, Vikings, texans, bears, bucs. Werer those games losses no matter who was in there? 

And for the record nobody is saying this team was capable of 10 plus wins, you wont find anybody even implying that, im arguing the notion we are still a 2 win team with a different QB.

[bigdog_10_2002]

If Dalton started the whole year, Caleb Williams would be a commander, Drake Maye would still be in New England and the bears would have to send a couple of picks to get Arizona’s number three pick to take Daniels. 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

8 hours ago, hepcat said:

Hypothetical offseason question. If the Panthers sat Bryce in 2023 and played Dalton instead, where would the Panthers be going into 2024? One thing is certain, things would be VERY different. 

1) Frank Reich doesn’t get fired. Dalton is a veteran and operated Frank’s offense far more effectively in the one game he started than Bryce did. The Panthers likely look a lot more competent early on and Frank doesn’t get fired mid-season.

Caveat - It’s also been quietly mentioned in some media outlets that Frank and the staff preferred to draft CJ Stroud and might have tanked the season intentionally to get fired, all speculation. But the vanilla offensive scheme might have been a coincidence due to lack of talent and competence, or perhaps malicious compliance. 

2) The Panthers wouldn’t have been the worst team in the NFL. The defense was fairly good in 2023 despite the fact the offense was the worst in the NFL with Young under center. With a veteran starting at QB, the offense would possess the ball for longer periods of time and could have lead to even better performances from the defense. 

3) Scott Fitterer doesn’t get fired. A move I think was needed either way, but if the Panthers resembled anything in the way of competency in 2023, Fitterer doesn’t get the axe especially because they hadn’t seen what Bryce can do on the field yet. 

4) David Tepper doesn’t throw a drink at a fan. I think we’re all tired of the owner of this franchise embarrassing the fans with his immature behavior but hey, I have to imagine that his rage wouldn’t have been at level 10 if they hadn’t had the disaster of a season they did in 2023.

5) Bryce has a good 2024? Biggest leap I can make in this speculation but I think if Bryce sat in 2024, and the team makes similar moves to build the offense around him, he would come into a much better situation after having a chance to learn on the bench behind a veteran instead of the situation he was thrust into. 
 

We will never know how this would have played out but it is fun to speculate!

I call BS. People get all giddy at the amount of yards he threw for but fail to acknowledge he had to attempt 58 pass attempts to hit that number. Almost 60 passes to get 360 yards. That is pretty awful and no way in fuging hell is that a viable strategy to do in all 17 games

Edited May 2 by Mr Mojo Risin

[ForJimmy]

17 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

What if i told you specifically I referenced the games we could have won with Dalton and my question still wasnt answered? He says Dalton wouldnt have survived that many games but the games i referenced were at the very beginning of the season and the middle so Dalton wouldnt have survived the begining of the season? Thats sounds like a pretty big reach and if you tally those games up thats atleast 6-7 wins. Nobody is saying we would have been a top 3 team in the NFC and you wont find any post of someone saying that. But with what Dalton could have given us considering how these games played out and being in a crappy division there would have been more success. It aint crazy to say at all.

What do you think really happens here?  Do you think that Seattle loss with half a secondary is a realistic game for Dalton to consistently have?  Do you expect 40 year old Dalton to throw it 60 times and rack up 361 yards while constantly getting hit to work against other teams?  If we played him all year do you think he would rack up 6,137 yards 34 TDs and 0 INTs on over a thousand attempts?  That games wasn't a great game.  We were trailing all game and he threw it against a terrible secondary 60 times averaging 6.6 yards an attempt.  He had one "deep" pass to Chark (wide ass open) for 27 yards who ran another 20 for a TD.  That's not happening against other teams.  I would be surprised if Dalton made it two more games taking those kinds of hits and probably losing both of those games.  Our OL sucked, Our coaches sucked, and our weapons sucked. 

Remember Rhule beat Andy Dalton and his Saints offense (which has a better OL and better weapons) just the prior year.  Yeah Matt Rhule...  Darnold put up 43 yards and 2 INTs and Dalton STILL couldn't beat him.  That's embarrassing.

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Because it goes back to what i said earlier in my original post. We had a rookie in those games making ROOKIE MISTAKES, if you remove those are you saying without a shadow of a doubt we still lose those games against those teams? Falcons, Saints, Vikings, texans, bears, bucs. Werer those games losses no matter who was in there? 

And for the record nobody is saying this team was capable of 10 plus wins, you wont find anybody even implying that, im arguing the notion we are still a 2 win team with a different QB.

sure.  I acknowledge we had a rookie making rookie mistakes. 

You fail to acknowledge a pushing 40 Dalton however paired up in this trainwreck wasn't going to yield significantly better results. good results.   And Dalton didn't even win his game vs a wrecked Seattle D. 

Andy Dalton couldn't even find a way for his team to beat the Carolina freaking Panthers in 2022.  A team with an interim HC, that couldn't score, playing like it was 1970.   And Andy Dalton had REAL weapons on the field at his disposal.   All Dalton had to do was score more than 10 points.  He couldn't pull that off.   

I probably got as little faith in Bryce as anyone here.   But I'm not willing to go this Andy Dalton route.  Maybe he wins 4ish here.  But he wasn't doing much here.  Dalton isn't Cincy Dalton.  

[CPF4LIFE]

3 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

I call BS. People get all giddy at the amount of yards he threw for but fail to acknowledge he had to attempt 58 pass attempts to hit that number. Almost 60 passes to get 360 yards. That is pretty awful and no way in fuging hell is that a viable strategy to do in all 17 games

So let me ask you this, and this is assuming you watched the first 2 games of the season. The falcons game was a back and forth between to 2 bad teams until bryce throws 2 crucial picks to help atlanta pull away. The second game was a sloppy game where the defense scored and our offense did absolutely nothing till the 4th quarter, bryce even fumbles and saints return for a TD. If Dalton starts both of those games is the outcome and playout still the same for both games?

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

So let me ask you this, and this is assuming you watched the first 2 games of the season. The falcons game was a back and forth between to 2 bad teams until bryce throws 2 crucial picks to help atlanta pull away. The second game was a sloppy game where the defense scored and our offense did absolutely nothing till the 4th quarter, bryce even fumbles and saints return for a TD. If Dalton starts both of those games is the outcome and playout still the same for both games?

all we know factually, is every play that happened is erased and everything would be totally different. 

So maybe Dalton is even worse than Bryce.  Maybe he is better.  If you look at his last 4 NFL starts....he certainly was worse than average Bryce play in a couple of those. 

[Move the Panthers to Raleigh]

We can thank Bryce for getting Fitterer fired, so there's that