REPORT: Dave Tepper would review play call data, review with Reich

[frankw]

3 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

I’m not sure how that’s relevant unless you are suggesting he was critiquing the play calling before they started calling plays. Obviously he liked the coaching staff before the season began or that wouldn’t have been the coaching staff. Everything went to poo pretty fast and deserved to be critiqued from game 1 on. Whether Tepper is competent as an owner is a completely separate matter. Has the playcalling been poo and deserving of being critiqued? 100% yes it has.

How is Tepper's competency a completely separate matter when he's the one who has assembled these coaching staffs that have saddled us with the worst winning percentage in all of professional sports the last few years?

We can acknowledge that Reich was awful and also acknowledge that it is David Tepper who keeps putting us in these situations.

It's basically this with Tepper but still some people want to carry water for whatever reason.

 

[pantherclaw]

As soon as I read the thread title, I said to myself, surely nobody is stupid enough to believe it.  

As far as sifting through the play calls when the offense is putrid.. I'd hope every owner would have that done by somebody that he trusted to other than the HC. 

[electro's horse]

Lol

lmao

[CanadianCat]

12 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

"That’s what made Panthers owner David Tepper and GM Scott Fitterer’s directive this past winter to new head coach Frank Reich worth discussing. They told Reich not to hire people he knew. They wanted the best coaches, not coaches who Reich could personally vouch for. That’s a massive difference."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/22/panthers-coach-frank-reich-hiring-assistants-david-tepper

He was told not to hire people he was familiar with.  The same thing the Giants did with Dabboll and looked how it turned out...

Hire the right HC and let him decide who he wants on his staff.  Then it's easier to hold him accountable IMO.  We had a group of individuals with all different philosophies that went behind each others backs.  Like I said the good news is he let DC pick his guys this time. 

See I dont read that as he was FORBADE from hiring people he knew, more that he encouraged to make a broad search and if people he knew were the best then hire them, but make a broad search. 

Tepper is a business centric guy. The 'not allowing him' narrative doesn't make business sense.

I dont think Reich ever had a solid plan in mind on how to run the team, never mind find staff that supported that. 

[WhoKnows]

1 minute ago, WUnderhill said:

Well we didn’t have a top coaching staff, we’ve had the worst coaching in the league for the past 4 years.

Yep. I loved seeing the why can’t we be like the Hurricanes. The Hurricanes owner canned everyone when he came in, but obviously hired the right folks and they’ve done the job. Tepper’s hired poo so far, 

Also, the guy you posted made a big assumption jump from criticizing play calls that clearly weren’t working to telling the coach what plays he likes and what he doesn’t. Those aren’t the same. I could ask my coach why we continued to throw short passes or ran on 3rd and 7 or longer. It doesn’t mean that I’m calling plays or telling a coach which plays I like.

[ForJimmy]

15 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

See I dont read that as he was FORBADE from hiring people he knew, more that he encouraged to make a broad search and if people he knew were the best then hire them, but make a broad search. 

Tepper is a business centric guy. The 'not allowing him' narrative doesn't make business sense.

I dont think Reich ever had a solid plan in mind on how to run the team, never mind find staff that supported that. 

I'm sure that was the idea behind it.  To get the best people possible.  It just didn't work because you had too many different ideas on how things should be ran.  You need to let the HC hire his people so that everyone is on the same page.  To his credit Tepper seems to be adapting.  Reich was a completely different approach than Rhule.  Now we have another approach through the help out of outside agency.  If he keeps adapting and trying different approaches he is bound to eventually get it right.  I also give him credit for cutting his losses on Rhule and Reich when it was clear they weren't the answer.  That was millions of his dollars he was throwing away for a chance to get better.  

[WhoKnows]

37 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

"That’s what made Panthers owner David Tepper and GM Scott Fitterer’s directive this past winter to new head coach Frank Reich worth discussing. They told Reich not to hire people he knew. They wanted the best coaches, not coaches who Reich could personally vouch for. That’s a massive difference."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/22/panthers-coach-frank-reich-hiring-assistants-david-tepper

He was told not to hire people he was familiar with.  The same thing the Giants did with Dabboll and looked how it turned out...

Hire the right HC and let him decide who he wants on his staff.  Then it's easier to hold him accountable IMO.  We had a group of individuals with all different philosophies that went behind each others backs.  Like I said the good news is he let DC pick his guys this time. 

Appreciate the article. Interestingly enough, this article:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/07/24/frank-reich-panthers-training-camp-lessons-bryce-young

Has a bit different twist on the hirings, especially since many assistants were Reich friends including Caldwell/Capers and the passing game coordinator. I don’t know the full details on who hired Brown and Evero but this article talks to what I said about Reich being fully prepared for his 2.0 coaching position. Like Marty, it didn’t go well. Since Evero seems to be well regarded in here, the only bad “forced” hire is Brown and Reich was calling plays until he sucked terribly.

[WhoKnows]

9 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I'm sure that was the idea behind it.  To get the best people possible.  It just didn't work because you had too many different ideas on how things should be ran.  You need to let the HC hire his people so that everyone is on the same page.  To his credit Tepper seems to be adapting.  Reich was a completely different approach than Rhule.  Now we have another approach through the help out of outside agency.  If he keeps adapting and trying different approaches he is bound to eventually get it right.  I also give him credit for cutting his losses on Rhule and Reich when it was clear they weren't the answer.  That was millions of his dollars he was throwing away for a chance to get better.  

Same page didn’t matter. Reich’s guy was the passing game coordinator and Reich called plays. Young was also the wrong choice. Lots of bad is what caused the issues, not just the non-play calling OC not meshing with Reich.

We can try and make it seem like this caused all the back stabbing, but it didn’t. The poo ass job we did in the offseason and the start of the season caused that. At that point the CYA instincts came out like crazy.

[Cavscout]

His team, he can do what he wants. 

[ForJimmy]

8 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Appreciate the article. Interestingly enough, this article:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/07/24/frank-reich-panthers-training-camp-lessons-bryce-young

Has a bit different twist on the hirings, especially since many assistants were Reich friends including Caldwell/Capers and the passing game coordinator. I don’t know the full details on who hired Brown and Evero but this article talks to what I said about Reich being fully prepared for his 2.0 coaching position. Like Marty, it didn’t go well. Since Evero seems to be well regarded in here, the only bad “forced” hire is Brown and Reich was calling plays until he sucked terribly.

Brown and Evero where flashy names that worked under McVay.  I think Evero worked because Reich never really has anything to do with defense.  He let Evero hire his own staff and run the defense without interference.  I'm also not sure McCown ever worked with Reich before.  Most GMs let their HC pick his own staff and if you hired the right person you should.  I think we were trying too hard to make sure Bryce had the best group of people around him but instead he was pulled in several different ways and probably overloaded. 

I also don't like how we still have Caldwell on this staff.  He would have been one that probably approved of the Reich hiring.  Let Canales have his own advisors/staff without any other people overseeing it or "consulting." 

[ForJimmy]

12 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Same page didn’t matter. Reich’s guy was the passing game coordinator and Reich called plays. Young was also the wrong choice. Lots of bad is what caused the issues, not just the non-play calling OC not meshing with Reich.

We can try and make it seem like this caused all the back stabbing, but it didn’t. The poo ass job we did in the offseason and the start of the season caused that. At that point the CYA instincts came out like crazy.

Same page matters when you are trying to build a solid staff to develop a rookie QB.  Sure Stroud was the better choice, but Young was far from the only issue with our offense.  In fact I'm not sure what was right with the offense from the play calling, protection, and weapons it was all a disaster.  I'm just reading what the players commented about last season and Young.  It appears the staff was definitely an issue...

AT

"Yeah, well, I'll say this: I mean, I think everything was stacked against him last year, unfortunately," Thielen said. "And I'm not gonna get into detail as to why that was, but I'm just really excited for him to have a fresh start, an ability to have a good coaching staff that's gonna put a good plan together to help him be successful, and also to put people around him to help him be successful."

Hurst

"I think it was apparent, if you were in this locker room, you could tell -- just a lot of voices," Hurst told the Charlotte Observer this week. "A lot of people trying to, I guess, right the ship. And I think it just got to the point where there were just too many voices."

These are both older veteran offensive players who have played with several QBs and offenses.  

[TheSpecialJuan]

2 hours ago, DeeJay said:

This clown still can't embed twitter posts tho

[Ricky Spanish]

I fixed the title to reflect what was actually said, as well as embedded the tweet properly.

And for all of you "I knew it!" people who obviously didn't read what was in the actual link nor the thread:

[strato]

Okay don’t overlook that Capers is Evero’s mentor, more or less. So there is a connection there and Reich would trust Dom. And that is defense anyway, wasn’t a problem like what happened with the offense. 

I believe Brown was the problem offensively. Along with Young being far less ready and capable than advertised. 

You can say what you want about play calling, but it seems like it was Brown’s offense that he designed. And it seems like that was a real problem.