BH's Draft Primer & Mock

[frankw]

I'd be happy with that for the first 2 picks.

We need to be realistic about expectations for another rookie WR even if we do take one at 33 or 39 regardless.

Center is a big need as far as I'm concerned though.

This route would also tell me Morgan is at least just trying to draft really good football players instead of overthinking trying to acquire more picks with less value.

We'll see how it shakes out.

[45catfan]

I'm okay with the picks for us, just not excited about them.  Yes, they are picks of need, but I would go elsewhere.  Center is position you can address nearly anywhere in the draft, second round is too high for me.  Edge I'm more okay with taking a guy in the second round, but I'd rather wait until the 3rd. 

[Bear Hands]

8 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I'm okay with the picks for us, just not excited about them.  Yes, they are picks of need, but I would go elsewhere.  Center is position you can address nearly anywhere in the draft, second round is too high for me.  Edge I'm more okay with taking a guy in the second round, but I'd rather wait until the 3rd. 

Pass rusher high is never a problem for me or historically. Interior lineman have become far more important against modern defenses. 

draft wise though..I’m looking at the specific players available, and I just think they’re a block above the offensive skill players for me so stayed committed to my rankings.

The value is just too high. I was flirting with Wiggins and Colson as other options, but the other offensive skill players were a peg below minus Pearsall for me. But I’m not sure the team has heavy interest in Ricky. I’m just not a fan of Worthy. My alarm bells just go off with that kid.

[45catfan]

Wrong thread... should have been in the mock one in the draft sub-forum.  I like it, so I'm not deleting it.

Edited April 14 by 45catfan

[Sniffrey]

Appreciate all the work you put into this post. I'm sure it was time consuming.

However, that would be an absolute horrific start to the 2024 draft for the Panthers. You talked about patience and not reaching for need, yet you did that on both picks.

Leaving Wiggins, Worthy, Tampa and Nubin available and taking Frazier is leaving better players on the board. It's not a completely aweful pick, it fills a need with a a player right behind those 4, but you don't leave Wiggins available when CB is an even bigger impact position and he's a massive upgrade at the position.

Then you made a DJ Johnson level reach for an EDGE who couldn't produce in the worst conference in D1 football at 39 and left about 80+ more impactful and simply better players on the board. 

You get an A- and a F with the F so low it would bring the 2nd round down to a D+

[Hoenheim]

That was a really good write up. I'd love those first 2 picks but it's so hard to not see one of them being a WR.

I guess in a way that would seriously say something about how highly they value those dudes if neither are a WR.

[Bear Hands]

7 hours ago, Sniffrey said:

Appreciate all the work you put into this post. I'm sure it was time consuming.

However, that would be an absolute horrific start to the 2024 draft for the Panthers. You talked about patience and not reaching for need, yet you did that on both picks.

Leaving Wiggins, Worthy, Tampa and Nubin available and taking Frazier is leaving better players on the board. It's not a completely aweful pick, it fills a need with a a player right behind those 4, but you don't leave Wiggins available when CB is an even bigger impact position and he's a massive upgrade at the position.

Then you made a DJ Johnson level reach for an EDGE who couldn't produce in the worst conference in D1 football at 39 and left about 80+ more impactful and simply better players on the board. 

You get an A- and a F with the F so low it would bring the 2nd round down to a D+

Haha well, appreciate your honesty. 

You can see Wiggins was considered in my alternates as I have him graded similarly, but Worthy, Tampa, Nubian..they’re more late 2nd for me. The one position-selection stigma this year is safety. Any GM taking a safety before #50 this year is on something. The value just hasn’t been there..for the past 5 years. 

Worthy I don’t want to touch personally.

Kneeland is a fringe 1st grade for me. ~34 overall so not a reach for me, but respect your opinion. Cheers.

[top dawg]

20 hours ago, Bear Hands said:

I've got a book for y'all so I will go ahead and write in the first: TL;DR 

This is just my perspective, overall approach and best take at a mock (up to pick 39) given what I've seen, read, and heard around.  Based on my own player takes, intel, visits, who's trending, who's falling, and just my gut feeling with this draft.

After pick 39, I have targets that I like for us and have listed them out in no particular order.

BH's Panthers 2024 Draft Primer & Mock

Here we go...

OVERALL APPROACH/SUGGESTIONS:

I want one thing from this Front Office: Patience  

Let it come this year and get the best possible impact starters at 33 and 39.  Don’t hyper-focus on filling our vacancies, accept that there will be some remaining after the draft.  

Get the best talent possible that matches the type of players we want.  This is not about a specific position.  This is about the best, highest impact player we can find.

However, I get a sense priority is helping Bryce, so this could be offensive heavy with a DB and/or pass rush addition.  That's fine, but don't let the need outweigh the talent available.  

 

NOTABLE ISSUES/CONCERNS:

Center: Sure, I guess Corbett can start, Mays serve as backup, but there’s a long term need here.

All Receiver Spots: Johnson is the presumed X (and more) but he’s not a certainty long term. Also-I hesitate to throw a rookie outside if it’s a prospect after AD/Ladd. 

Thielen/Mingo have issues with age or waiting to break out.  We either need a guy that can create separation and play multiple spots (or) a potential X that can be eased in different ways via motion/crossers/etc.

RB: An all-around type who can become the new centerpiece - A pass-catching back seems a must at minimum for Canales.  

ILB: Shaq and Jewell aren’t a long term duo, don't think this is resolved.  

OLB: Clowney, Wonnum, DJJ, Barno…could use an upgrade long-term/a better rotational pass rusher

CB: Horn/Jackson/Hill/Bootle is serviceable but could see us going CB earlier than expected

OL Depth: This never hurts

Developmental QB: A guy for QB3/PS, not a priority, but could be a R7 or UDFA snag

 

OVERALL DRAFT NOTES:

• It is a nice blue chipper top-15, then there’s a BIG tier shift.  But that next tier holds in grade until late Round 2, Early 3rd.  It is a great draft in that range.
• The top IOL talent is going to be similar/if not more coveted than the WR talent in R1
• The IDL talent will be way more sought after than is being let on (Newton, Murphy, etc.)
• Mr. 4.21 falls a bit, speed be damned 
• This class is DEEP at receiver and I foresee impact options in the mid-rounds
• Deep class at IOL, WR, and DB.  Sneaky decent at RB, sneaky good at DB.
• There will be long term IOL starters in the 3rd-4th round
• I’m projecting 3-4 trades in the 1st round
• Nix is a Round 2 guy.  Penix, late 1st (still like him).  I just don’t see them in the top-15.

 

MOCK DRAFT:

ROUND 1

1 - CHI - Caleb Williams QB USC

Not much to say.  This is happening barring Caleb doing something career-ending. 

 

2 - WAS - Jayden Daniels QB LSU

I believe they prefer Daniels at the end of the day.  He flashed some serious pocket potential while being a high-end playmaker with his legs.  If he hits, it will be above and beyond, so just roll the dice.  A new era in DC begins.

 

3 - NE - JJ McCarthy QB Michigan

This is a popular trade down spot, but I think it’s QB 1,2,3, with a bit of a surprise.  The Pats have a lot of needs at the start of their rebuild, but if a franchise QB presents himself, you grab him.  I just think they go with another Michigan product instead of Maye.  This is a gut feeling here.

 

4 - AZ - Marvin Harrison Jr WR OSU

Another popular trade down spot, but nope.  I’m not biting that Arizona moves down with MH available.  They just traded back last year.  Now, in need of weapons, they land themselves a TOP weapon, arguably the best player in the draft.  No need to get cute.  

 

*5 - MIN (from LAC) - Drake Maye QB UNC

TRADE #1.  The Giants and Vikings are clearly vying for a QB and this Chargers pick is the one I see being the target spot they both call about.  For the Chargers, their need to give Herbert a legit weapon is serious, but on the other side, people are questioning if Harbaugh goes skill guys high.  I just think MIN makes a major offer too good to pass up.

So, MIN is up–O’Connell & Jefferson get their guy.  This would be an incredible situation for Maye, and for a team approaching a make or break season with their staff.  LAC lands another 1st with some big spots to fill.

 

6 - NYG - Malik Nabers WR LSU

With their top QB targets gone, the Giants could trade.  They also have OL needs.  And QB needs...and a few others.  So, I could definitely see NY moving around. Thing is, Nabers is a player that’s just too good to pass on.  Take him and elevate the offense entirely, 

 

7 - TEN - Joe Alt LT Notre Dame 

TEN is a weird team.  HC-Callahan, QB-Levis, RB-Pollard/Spears, WR-Hopkins/Ridley.  I guess that’s what they’re rolling with after being big FA spenders. Alt has been an easy pick in mocks, but it’s for a reason.  Would be a huge get and they see if Levis has “it” in 2024.

 

*8 - IND (from ATL) - Rome Odunze WR WASH

TRADE #2.  I see a team getting aggressive if Rome is available here.  Could also be LAC with a trade back up for a top WR.  The Colts may seem set with Pittman/Pierce/Downs but I still see a big void for a playmaker there.  Big-move time for Indy to help out AR, they give ATL an offer too good to pass up. 

 

9 - CHI - Dallas Turner Alabama DE/ED

Poles stated their intentions to land one of the draft’s blue chip players so I don’t see them moving down.  Turner is the cleanest of the pass rush candidates.  I don’t have a doubt he can fit Eberflus’ defense and there have been plenty of hints in Chi-town that this is the guy they’re targeting.    

 

10 - NYJ - Taliese Fuaga OT/G Oregon State

They’ve now got Mike Williams and Tyron Smith in house.   Defensively, the front-7 is looking strong with Reddick and QW.  On Offense, Rodgers has the vets he likes…but this is also a team going all in.  They need to protect Aaron at all costs and Smith & Moses don’t make me THAT comfortable.  Also, just looking at the talent, he’s a great prospect at 10.  Can play G and T, high ceiling, high floor.    

 

*11 - LAC (from MIN) - JC Latham OT/G Alabama

The Chargers have shown strong interest in Latham and he fits the Roman offense quite well.  Fans would be super ticked to not get a WR high, but it could very well happen.   

 

12 - DEN - Brock Bowers TE UGA 

I’m not quite sure what the Broncos have in mind this offseason other than their rumored uniform change.  I’m also unsure about Nix or Penix going this high.  Payton has high standards and I don’t see them reaching.  Brugler reported they’re a dark horse team for Bowers, and honestly, a top TE kind of makes sense for Payton’s offense.  They need some semblance of offense if they’re not getting a top QB.  Great cornerstone piece, don’t see Bowers going much lower. 

 

13 - LVR - Quinyon Mitchell CB Toledo 

The Raiders are in a spot where the fanbase is getting pretty antsy for an answer at QB.  However, this new regime has Telesco and Antonio Pierce at the helm.  Telesco loves getting sure things (new MO for the Raiders), and Pierce is all defense.  This selection gives them a stout CB1 across from Jack Jones.  Pair that with the DL they’re growing with Crosby, Wilkins, Tyree & Koonce, they could go from good to great on D.   

 

14 - NO - Troy Fautanu OT/G Washington

Their defense is in decent shape but if they want that offense to get more consistent, they would be wise to take advantage of the upper tier in this OL class.  Especially with the Ryan Ramczyk news, Fautanu is an NFL LT.   Could be a good fit here.

 

15 - ATL (from IND) - Jared Verse DE/ED FSU 

ATL trades down to a spot where they can still land a much needed pass rusher in this class.  Verse stays in the Southeast.

 

16 - SEA - Byron Murphy II DT Texas 

Murphy is a stout defender and can get at the QB.  He’s one of “my guys” and think teams will covet him come draft time.  His quickness and movement is next level.  Also reportedly a super high football IQ & film rat type. 

Not an apparent top need in SEA but something that makes a lot of sense. Get a top DL target that they’ve reportedly been eyeing.

Love love love the fit.  

 

17 - JAX - Kool-Aid McKinstry CB Alabama

A bit of a surprise he goes before Arnold but this is more due to what I think Baalke will drum up.  Baalke is also not a WR guy – they seem to be eyeing the DB class pretty closely, Kool-Aid in particular.  Seems high, but it’s a gut feeling with Ballke being weird.   

 

18 - CIN - Olu Fashanu OT Penn State  

This could be a wise direction with Burrow’s history.  Sure, Trent Brown is signed and will be their LT, but Fashanu has some positional flexibility and this would make a lot of sense value wise (and for the future)  

 

19 - LAR - Laiaitu Latu OLB/DE UCLA

 This would be a pretty great scenario for LAR.   Would really help shore up that front-7. 

 

20 - PIT - Amarius Mims OT UGA 

I was thinking WR, but I see Pittsburgh being patient considering the value of those available and depth of the class.  This is a super valuable selection.   Excellent fit here since Dan Moore is just a backup (as he should be) and Broderick Jones can go to LT.  Huge upside pick, big boy to plug in at RT.  Tomlin & Khan went to his pro-day and have shown interest.  Steelers’ MO is always traveling to meet their 1st round selections.   

 

21 - MIA - Graham Barton C/G/T Duke

They have a handful of needs after a cap-casualty filled offseason.  Priority should be stabilizing that offensive line.  Would be a strong pick here to shore things up in front of Tua.  Barton is going to go higher than you think, and he happens to fit McDaniel’s offense super well.  I can definitely see him gone before the commonly hyped Powers-Johnson.

 

22 - PHI - Terrion Arnold Alabama CB

Philly is a popular spot for edge rushers and DBs…and I’m not really changing that pattern if Arnold is available here.  He would be a really good fit in that defense.  

 

23 - LAC - Brian Thomas Jr. WR LSU

This would be quite the scenario for LAC.  Trade down, take one of the most coveted OLs tailored for their system, and then land Brian Thomas Jr.  This “fall” is simply because of the talent in the top-15ish, but is still a huge get.  He has excellent potential and this is an easy pairing.  Guys like Latu, Murphy, Fautanu, are legit talents at coveted positions.  Don’t think this type of range is out of reach for Thomas.

 

24 - DAL - Jackson Powers-Johnson C Oregon 

Dallas is moving into a semi-rebuild situation.  Needs include an LT, C, DB, WR2, LB, quite a few.  But the Jones family has already hinted at OL being a huge draft target.  Guyton could be good here, but I’m leaning JP-J at center.

 

25 - GB - Darius Robinson ED/DL Missouri

The Packers are a team with particular standards at DL, OL and DB where you can take certain guys off their list.  They also draft young.  I’m unsure if a lifelong Lions fans is knocked off, but Darius Robinson would still be a really solid fit on defensive for them.  Watch out - he could go higher.  

 

*26 - LVR (from TB) - Michael Penix Jr. QB Washington

TRADE #3.  With the top IOLs going off the board, I see a field of DBs available that fit TB (Wiggins, DeJean), but this could be a spot where TB fields calls.  It’s a good moment for the Raiders or Broncos to make the jump and grab the guy they want at QB.  

 

27 - AZ - Chop Robinson EDGE Penn State 

Pass rusher is a big need and I find it hard to see Chop slip much further after his testing this offseason.  The upside is tantalizing and the Cards need a better defensive identity after skipping on WA Jr last year.  Reminds me of some of the guys Gannon had in Philly.

 

28 - BUF - Ladd McConkey WR UGA

Allen needs a guy to throw to that can do it all.  AD Mitchell has been a popular choice for them but McConkey could add a dynamic weapon that Josh simply hasn’t had yet.  Add him with Kincaid and Cook, that offense could start rolling in an effective and different way.  

 

29 - DET - Johnny Newton DT Illinois

Detroit’s biggest problem, in their biggest moments, was taking over the LOS in big games.  This is the type of dude that can help them get over this hurdle.  So, the Packers take the Lions fan, the Lions take a Bears fan.  Definitely a Campbell guy and would make Hutch’s job much easier.

 

30 - BAL - Tyler Guyton OT Oklahoma

Fresh off a big year, the league MVP now has Derrick Henry in house.  I think it would be smart to give them a boost up front.  This happens to fill a moderate need, but more importantly, it’s just smart for a team gunning for a SB.  They lost some in the front-7 and could use a defender, but they have more picks for that.  

 

31 - SF - Cooper DeJean DB Iowa 

I had thought Jordan Morgan here for a bit, but DeJean offers a lot for the 49ers.  He really fits the blend of athleticism and high football IQ that the 49ers love on defense.  Would fit really well communicating with Warner pre-snap.

 

32 - KC - Adonai Mitchell WR Texas

To our dismay, Mitchell goes a pick before ours to the SB champs.  This would be a nice complimentary piece to Rice and Hollywood.  Helps give Mahomes one of the more diverse groups he’s had since he had Hill.  

 

ROUND 2 

33 - CAR - Zach Frazier G/C West Virginia 6’3 316

If this is how it falls, I’m not running to the podium for any offensive skill players -- it allows top talent to become available.

I love everything I’ve been hearing and reading about Frazier.  I’m not going to act like I’m some film guru with IOLs but he has some brute force and doesn’t get knocked back much.  And reading about his toughness and leadership is awesome – I would recommend searching for articles on him.  Hefty experience in both gap and zone, he’s ready to slot right into a team’s starting center position.  A ton of snaps (2,400+ center snaps in 3 years), consistent force.  Here you go, starting C.  Excellent value and BPA. 

Other Considerations (value wise): Jordan Morgan OT/G Arizona, Edgerrin Cooper LB Texas A&M, Marshawn Kneeland EDGE WM, Junior Colson ILB Michigan

 

34 - NE - Jordan Morgan OT/G Arizona

They land another one of the promising OLs to help keep McCarthy upright.  Can see Morgan in the first but it was tough to fit him in.

 

35 - AZ - Kingsley Suamataia OG/T BYU

Cards land EDGE, DB, and a WR.  Time to focus on protecting their QB who’s finally returning to 100% this year.  They have pieces, but they need more depth and a potential starter.

 

36 - WAS - Ricky Pearsall WR Florida (form. AZ State)

Sun Devils are reunited in DC.  Heck, don’t look past them trading #40 and more for Aiyuk to bring the whole squad back together.  Best catch rate in the draft +10-yards, excellent route runner, 60/40 slot/flanker guy in college.  The type of safety valve WAS needs for their high upside rookie QB in Daniels. 

 

37 - LAC - Edgerrin Cooper LB Texas A&M

High defensive upside for a coach that likes his aggressive, athletic LBs.  Could be a strong fit in LA.

 

38 - TEN - Kris Jenkins Jr. Michigan DT

Titans could use some flavor on defense and I think Jenkins is going to end up drafted much higher than presumed.  Teams covet the fierce DL warriors at the end of the day and Jenkins has it in his blood.

 

39 - CAR - Marshawn Kneeland EDGE Western Michigan 6’3 267

Kneeland just bullies OTs.  Makes them look silly.  Has NFL-ready strength, a DIRTY bull rush, can play in the dirt, standing, and is excellent against the run.  He just has a lot of traits that teams look for.  He’s also just very fitting for a rotation like ours and he can do quite a lot.  Once he’s off the board, the EDGE’s become a bit sparse or more speed-rush/one dimensional.  (Do love Ellis though).  We met with him, and I get a sense he’s a guy Morgan quite likes. 

Just a tough, powerful dawg here.  Could be a big piece for a long time.  Reminds me of Tuli last year who I loved for us (damn you Fitt)

Alternate considerations: Junior Colson ILB Michigan, Nate Wiggins CB Clemson, Braden Fiske DT FSU, Xavier Legette WR South Carolina, Keon Coleman WR FSU, Ja'Lynn Polk WR Wash

 

–

 

REMAINING DRAFT TARGETS:

LATE-2ND to EARLY 3RD:

Trey Benson RB FSU 6’0 220

He is easily my favorite RB in the draft.  He’s a home run hitter, gap and zone experience as a runner, a quick cutter, plays with balance and toughness.  Just really like the fit as an all-around guy to come in and get the bulk carries.  Instantly changes our offense in a big way.   

 

Ja’Lynn Polk WR Washington 6'1 203

Polk may not flash speed wise, but his ability to catch through contact and consistently get open is why I’m a fan.  Experience at the X, Z and slot.  Can get all over the place and when he had a game or so banged up, the Washington offense looked different.  I get a sense he’s really liked by teams.  

 

Xavier Legette WR South Carolina 6’1 221

He plays like he’s 6’4 and has the jets to beat man.  It makes sense why so many are drawn to the kid - well, that and being a Carolina boy.  However, his late blooming, combined with his lack of short area skills are what get me a bit.  He’s not going to get open quickly against base zone concepts, but he will bully guys for the ball and make plays.  

You either need to get him a running start or get him isolated in man to create opportunities.  The team is obviously very interested and I can’t deny the potential.  Not the biggest fan but he could be really good.  I could see him in the 2nd if they like him THAT much, top of the 3rd, no problem at all.      

 

Malik Washington WR Virginia 5’8.5 191

I like this kid a lot.  He’s a hair under 5’9 but I gotta say, his catch radius and the way he plays is larger than how it reads. 

I just love how absolutely tough he runs.  His YAC skills, experience as a volume catcher, it’s just a lot to like.  He will be a really good asset for any offense, and especially Bryce.  I just love when you can get a guy that WAS his team’s offense.  I get the same vibes that I did with Dell last year around Malik.  Led CFS in multiple categories, has the experience and whole feel for the position.  

At minimum, instant impact slot machine.  Maximum, he could get some snaps outside depending on the team we’re facing and just blow up year 1.      

 

Max Melton CB Rutgers 6'0 187

Melton has been flying under the radar a tad but I think we’re eyeing DBs and he could be one of them.  Some great quickness and ability to keep up with NFL WRs.  Ballhawk, put up good numbers, very instinctive. 

 

Jonah Ellis EDGE Utah & Bralen Trice EDGE Washington

A double EDGE shoutout.  For Trice - I was a fan going into this past season but his game just isn’t consistent enough against the run to take him super high.  HOWEVER, this kid, similar to Ellis, just gets after the QB and both are exciting pass rushers.  Given we have a rotation with Clowney, Wonnum, and maybe DJJ, these guys could come in and compete for snaps against Barno.  They have the ceiling to turn into more starting caliber types sooner than later.   

 

LATE 3RD TO 4TH

Javon Baker WR UCF 6’1 202

Another guy with a great catch radius and attitude after the catch.  

Can play multiple spots so fits in a few different ways.  Have even seen Dionte Johnson comps–Not to mention, spent 2 years with Bryce Young so there could be some chemistry there even if they didn’t have a ton of statistical production together (he was behind quite the WRs at Bama in 2020) 

Honestly, if he and Bryce are tight, this could be a really strong prospect for us.  Love his X-potential.    

 

Marshawn Lloyd RB USC 5’9 220 4.46 & Jaylen Wright RB Tennessee

Lloyd is the next RB that I think could work really well for Bryce.  Can catch, love his sudden change in direction combined with his acceleration at that size.  Brings a lot to the table and would compete with Hubbard for the top snap count pretty quickly.  Good blend of physicality and receiving ability.    

Wright is also right there with him, could go higher.  Some great all-around ability, tough runner, big play ability, home run threat.  He's like a jacked Kamara.   

 

Ben Sinnott TE Kansas State 6’4 240

I think Sinnott is the TE to land from this class after Brock.  If he’s floating around in the 4th, I’d love to see us be aggressive and get him.  Just don’t lose capital, get a package together that makes sense. 

Great production, was his team’s leading receiver (not the best offense), but like with Malik, I love when it’s a guy with the bulk volume experience for his offense.  That’s a person who has already faced and handled a diverse set of players, and has likely matched up more along the way against NFL talent.

 

Dru Philips CB Kentucky

This is a DB prospect not to sleep on.  Physical, athletic, strong, with speed…willing to go toe-to-toe with bigger WRs even at his height just under 5’11. Needs to shore up some of his tackling skills, but that’s why guys end up in the 3rd-4th.  Strong potential.   

 

SLEEPERS/LATER ON

Cornelius Johnson WR Michigan 6’3 212 4.44

He’s a guy who has grown on me during the process and watching McCarthy and Wilson.  He plays with attitude against DBs, has a great speed + size combo, and NFL ready tools.  He would be a strong developmental type to have behind Dionte and who knows, maybe he could have an impact early.  

 

Anthony Gould WR Oregon State & Jacob Cowing WR Arizona 5’8 170

These dudes are burners.  Size may bring both down draft boards but they get vertical and are fun to watch.  Both started 3 years+ and could be rather effective sooner than later.  

If we go with a bigger guy early, I wouldn’t look past adding either Gould or Cowing late rounds.  Just take a flyer on one of these types. 

 

 

--
Okay, well that's it for now, may add more later.  Cheers.





 

Pie for the work. I generally look at mocks are just shots in the dark. 

When so was looking at your later round prospects, l literally said, "He didn't even mention Brenden Rice," but then in your subsequent post,you mentioned Brenden Rice. . 

We agree on Malik Washington. If I were talking to Dan, I'd be saying, "We gotta have him!" But we all know that each draft has a life of its own. 

I don't think Kool-Aid is going to be drafted before Arnold, and as such I think that he could possibly slide to us. If he gets past Philly and Detroit, he'd be on our short list for sure.

 

[Bear Hands]

15 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Pie for the work. I generally look at mocks are just shots in the dark. 

When so was looking at your later round prospects, l literally said, "He didn't even mention Brenden Rice," but then in your subsequent post,you mentioned Brenden Rice. . 

We agree on Malik Washington. If I were talking to Dan, I'd be saying, "We gotta have him!" But we all know that each draft has a life of its own. 

I don't think Kool-Aid is going to be drafted before Arnold, and as such I think that he could possibly slide to us. If he gets past Philly and Detroit, he'd be on our short list for sure.

 

Thanks, yeah I tried to make it more of an overall-look, first-ish round mock, & my favorite prospects read rather than just pushing in names for each round 2-7.

For Kool-Aid: I had done some snooping around on team boards and elsewhere to gather fan sentiment and perceived GM tendencies.  McKinstry just sounds like a Baalke-type target.  That fanbase would love to be aggressive (trade up for Bowers or Odunze) but they doubt he would do it.  They're a bit sour on coaching and management right now and convinced he's going DB.  Sounds like GB could also be eyeing him if they don't go front-7.  

For WR: I just have a hard time selling myself on any of the remaining WRs over other talent at 33 & 39 after McConkey and AD.   They're either more high percent slot dudes or outside types w/size restrictions or developmental needs.  Polk and Malik are the ones that perk my interest the most, but they're in that 2nd to high-3rd range.  

And to address a certain guy - Given how interested it seem we are in Legette, I am really trying to reconsider him so have done my best with warming up to the idea.   

WR Board:

1. Marv Jr.

2A/B. Naber/Odunze

3. Brian Thomas Jr.

4. Ladd McConkey

5. Adonai Mitchell

6-15ish. I really can't make up my mind

• Coleman is good but his testing left a lot of people questioning his speed/quickness and ability to create separation in the NFL.  Big potential there but unsure if the fit is right for what Bryce needs.    
• Roman Wilson and Malik Washington (especially) could both be legit.  Really good prospects, but they're going to be high percent slot - so there's consideration to that as well.  
• Polk I like - plays every spot at WR, he has great physicality, catches through contact, strong route running, and good enough in-game quickness to win man v. man.  Is he worth it at 39?  I'm preferential to him but the other talent at 39 was higher.    
• Pearsall I like (high-floor), top route runner & hands, but he's not a game-breaker or winning teams games. I can see why teams will have him graded highly though.  
• Legette has the explosive speed and athleticism - there's mad potential which could make him a good choice but is going to need work with route running.  His combine gauntlet was a bit rough and he needs to polish off his short area techniques against zone. 
• Franklin and Worthy are both burners with focus drops, light-framed, & don't play through contact well.  Both scare me as their profiles are what tends to bust pretty consistently.
• Baker I can't overlook, I just love the way he plays  
• Burton is apparently a headcase and was in the doghouse for at least 2 of the 4 schools he played for.  He could be a guy scratched off some team boards entirely.  

[Byrdman4real]

17 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Thanks, yeah I tried to make it more of an overall-look, first-ish round mock, & my favorite prospects read rather than just pushing in names for each round 2-7.

For Kool-Aid: I had done some snooping around on team boards and elsewhere to gather fan sentiment and perceived GM tendencies.  McKinstry just sounds like a Baalke-type target.  That fanbase would love to be aggressive (trade up for Bowers or Odunze) but they doubt he would do it.  They're a bit sour on coaching and management right now and convinced he's going DB.  Sounds like GB could also be eyeing him if they don't go front-7.  

For WR: I just have a hard time selling myself on any of the remaining WRs over other talent at 33 & 39 after McConkey and AD.   They're either more high percent slot dudes or outside types w/size restrictions or developmental needs.  Polk and Malik are the ones that perk my interest the most, but they're in that 2nd to high-3rd range.  

And to address a certain guy - Given how interested it seem we are in Legette, I am really trying to reconsider him so have done my best with warming up to the idea.   

WR Board:

1. Marv Jr.

2A/B. Naber/Odunze

3. Brian Thomas Jr.

4. Ladd McConkey

5. Adonai Mitchell

6-15ish. I really can't make up my mind

• Coleman is good but his testing left a lot of people questioning his speed/quickness and ability to create separation in the NFL.  Big potential there but unsure if the fit is right for what Bryce needs.    
• Roman Wilson and Malik Washington (especially) could both be legit.  Really good prospects, but they're going to be high percent slot - so there's consideration to that as well.  
• Polk I like - plays every spot at WR, he has great physicality, catches through contact, strong route running, and good enough in-game quickness to win man v. man.  Is he worth it at 39?  I'm preferential to him but the other talent at 39 was higher.    
• Pearsall I like (high-floor), top route runner & hands, but he's not a game-breaker or winning teams games. I can see why teams will have him graded highly though.  
• Legette has the explosive speed and athleticism - there's mad potential which could make him a good choice but is going to need work with route running.  His combine gauntlet was a bit rough and he needs to polish off his short area techniques against zone. 
• Franklin and Worthy are both burners with focus drops, light-framed, & don't play through contact well.  Both scare me as their profiles are what tends to bust pretty consistently.
• Baker I can't overlook, I just love the way he plays  
• Burton is apparently a headcase and was in the doghouse for at least 2 of the 4 schools he played for.  He could be a guy scratched off some team boards entirely.  

Exactly how I see it

[Bear Hands]

6 minutes ago, Byrdman4real said:

Exactly how I see it

I didn't want to play with trades for us, and don't want to move from 33, but one scenario I thought of that could be compelling:

Nix is available...

CAR receives: 52 (R2), 83 (R3), a future 3rd/4th

LAR receives: 39 (R2), 142 (R5)

We keep 33.  Only go a notch down in the 2nd.  We have 33, 52, 65, 83, 101, 141 - basically 5 top-100 picks.  

That trade scenario is what I think could be money, you keep #33, gain capital for an additional impact guy and future pick.  Barely lose much at all, still grab the WR we want, maybe double dip, grab Benson at RB.  It really opens the draft up for us.  Polk, Malik, Benson, Sinnott, Rice, Baker, etc. 

Minor thought - ok, aight I'm out for today ha  

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Bear Hands said:

Thanks, yeah I tried to make it more of an overall-look, first-ish round mock, & my favorite prospects read rather than just pushing in names for each round 2-7.

For Kool-Aid: I had done some snooping around on team boards and elsewhere to gather fan sentiment and perceived GM tendencies.  McKinstry just sounds like a Baalke-type target.  That fanbase would love to be aggressive (trade up for Bowers or Odunze) but they doubt he would do it.  They're a bit sour on coaching and management right now and convinced he's going DB.  Sounds like GB could also be eyeing him if they don't go front-7.  

For WR: I just have a hard time selling myself on any of the remaining WRs over other talent at 33 & 39 after McConkey and AD.   They're either more high percent slot dudes or outside types w/size restrictions or developmental needs.  Polk and Malik are the ones that perk my interest the most, but they're in that 2nd to high-3rd range.  

And to address a certain guy - Given how interested it seem we are in Legette, I am really trying to reconsider him so have done my best with warming up to the idea.   

WR Board:

1. Marv Jr.

2A/B. Naber/Odunze

3. Brian Thomas Jr.

4. Ladd McConkey

5. Adonai Mitchell

6-15ish. I really can't make up my mind

• Coleman is good but his testing left a lot of people questioning his speed/quickness and ability to create separation in the NFL.  Big potential there but unsure if the fit is right for what Bryce needs.    
• Roman Wilson and Malik Washington (especially) could both be legit.  Really good prospects, but they're going to be high percent slot - so there's consideration to that as well.  
• Polk I like - plays every spot at WR, he has great physicality, catches through contact, strong route running, and good enough in-game quickness to win man v. man.  Is he worth it at 39?  I'm preferential to him but the other talent at 39 was higher.    
• Pearsall I like (high-floor), top route runner & hands, but he's not a game-breaker or winning teams games. I can see why teams will have him graded highly though.  
• Legette has the explosive speed and athleticism - there's mad potential which could make him a good choice but is going to need work with route running.  His combine gauntlet was a bit rough and he needs to polish off his short area techniques against zone. 
• Franklin and Worthy are both burners with focus drops, light-framed, & don't play through contact well.  Both scare me as their profiles are what tends to bust pretty consistently.
• Baker I can't overlook, I just love the way he plays  
• Burton is apparently a headcase and was in the doghouse for at least 2 of the 4 schools he played for.  He could be a guy scratched off some team boards entirely.  

Well, just to say one more time---because I'm kinda just tired of talking about Legette, and I suspect that he may even be gone...or not---I know that he has work to do, but I believe that they all do outside of maybe MHJ. I think that development is simply a built-in part of the equation.

I've also said before, that I simply just reject the notion of drafting---or in this case not drafting a receiver based upon a QB's perceived limitations. If you truly believe that your QB can't play with a game receiver, than you probably need to be changing your QB ASAP. That aside, but kind of within the same vein, how does it make sense to base drafting decisions in part upon a sophomore QB that was very shaky during his first season and may not even be around for his third season? It really doesn't if people are honest. If I'm drafting a receiver, it's because I believe in the receiver. I believe in his talent, I believe that he can be developed, and I believe that my staff will be able to put him into positions where he will succeed, regardless. 

Legette has the skills to be a legitimate X receiver. I also think that he has top 10 upside during his career. Could he bust? Yeah, but so could many. Hell, even Nabers could flop if someone doesn't realize that he's most effective in the slot. My thing with Legette is that you can't hit the home run if you're afraid to take the damned swing. 

[Basbear]

Thanks fellow bear, I enjoyed the work you put into many of your posts just like MHS!

[Bear Hands]

4 hours ago, top dawg said:

Well, just to say one more time---because I'm kinda just tired of talking about Legette, and I suspect that he may even be gone...or not---I know that he has work to do, but I believe that they all do outside of maybe MHJ. I think that development is simply a built-in part of the equation.

I've also said before, that I simply just reject the notion of drafting---or in this case not drafting a receiver based upon a QB's perceived limitations. If you truly believe that your QB can't play with a game receiver, than you probably need to be changing your QB ASAP. That aside, but kind of within the same vein, how does it make sense to base drafting decisions in part upon a sophomore QB that was very shaky during his first season and may not even be around for his third season? It really doesn't if people are honest. If I'm drafting a receiver, it's because I believe in the receiver. I believe in his talent, I believe that he can be developed, and I believe that my staff will be able to put him into positions where he will succeed, regardless. 

 

In one side- I’m not drafting him due to his limitations as a route runner and ability against zone. On the other— am drafting him due to his ceiling, physicality, 50/50 ability and deep speed.