Hope for TMJ?

[MHS831]

2 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

You are so sweet!!!  I was just having some fun with you, since you were with me. 

[strato]

If he was truly quitting people woiuld know and there wouldn’t be any hope in my mind. I am not arguing to keep a guy that gives sub par effort. I am no fan boy of them. I would guess Morgan can suss that all out pretty easily. And reliably. 

Now, if this criticism is because they screwed up a route or timing or whatever which I seem to remember people saying he quit on a route. No fan just watching knows about that stuff, what the real reason is. Who quit, who was on trhe wropng page, etc. 

 

Damn. Go back and look at the 2nd Atl pick Young threw, and look at the wide open man running free down the left side. Got nothing to do with it except to maybe refute that it is all on crappy WRs. Or OL. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

23 minutes ago, Rayzorscunt said:

Lol third you will never permaban me and I don't give a f*ck about post count ect 

 

Let's see @SmashNDash @Kuechly59 @TrevorLaurenceTime22 @SvechnikovAhoStorm Before the 08" crash beastmorgan55 

@Beaston52 heck those are just ones i remember you will give up before i do lol. It's cute that you think i care your annoying but whooooey cam is a just a f*cking racist troll who contributes nothing but moronic opinions that he pretends didn't happen lol

This is some sad stuff man.

 

Get some help bro.

[frankw]

I suppose it's possible he could show some flashes under Canales. I'm not going to get my hopes up though. If I'm pleasantly surprised however then great I'll gladly take it.

Also I just got in here for the last page of this thread and here I thought I had a bit of a crummy Monday. Whew.....

[RJK]

I have faith that TMJ and Mingo can be salvaged with good coaching, not sure they’ll get it yet tho 

[lightsout]

TMJ and Mingo have potential. Whether they develop and grow into that remains to be seen. We haven't had a functioning offense in years. Kinda hard to judge

[WUnderhill]

1 hour ago, strato said:

If he was truly quitting people woiuld know and there wouldn’t be any hope in my mind. I am not arguing to keep a guy that gives sub par effort. I am no fan boy of them. I would guess Morgan can suss that all out pretty easily. And reliably. 

Now, if this criticism is because they screwed up a route or timing or whatever which I seem to remember people saying he quit on a route. No fan just watching knows about that stuff, what the real reason is. Who quit, who was on trhe wropng page, etc. 

 

Damn. Go back and look at the 2nd Atl pick Young threw, and look at the wide open man running free down the left side. Got nothing to do with it except to maybe refute that it is all on crappy WRs. Or OL. 

In the same game he slowed down in the middle of his route and caused what would have been a huge completion down the sideline to be overthrown instead.

[strato]

That is what I was thinking of.  All anybody can do is assume what happened with that. Only two guys know. 

[Pejorative Miscreant]

I want all of our players to succeed And maybe he can turn it around.  But last season my hope changed to nope for TMJ

[musicman]

I like the logic, even if the odds are saying it probably won't change the outcome of the past. But, you never know. He had so many coaches since being in the league and having success and being so young at LSU as a support WR (he was behind 2 great receivers) and then struggling in the NFL (with bad coaches) is probably a major factor.

Hey, the Panthers have nothing to lose by giving him a shot in camp. If he's WR #4 it's a win for us. If he steps up even more, his career takes a big step and he gets a good/decent 2nd contract from somebody. 

[Ricky Prickles]

I feel like his issues are mental. I don't think he has the mindset for the NFL and is probably somewhat of a baby brat. I could be wrong but he shows many characteristics of it. His physical talents made him great in high school and college playing at a top school alongside top talent but in the pros it takes that AND MORE. It takes the mindset as well. Those who have only physical talent and no mindset usually aren't successful long terms in the pros. They may be good for a season or get hopes up but they seem to fizzle fast. 

TMJ has not even shined for a season unfortunately. It HAS to be his mindset I believe. His mindset would probably make him study his playbook harder or make him desire to be the best or push him to be a "dawg" but I have a feeling it's not there. What he needs is a good mentor to tell him what he is doing wrong in his mind and he needs a good position coach or head coach to jump all over his ass and work on that mind. Or even a sport psychologist perhaps? It's easier for a coach to just cut a player like that because they can't spend so much time on just one. His has immense physical potential but I believe simply lacks a mindset for this all which holds him back completely as a player in the NFL. A change of scenery will not fix this as his mindset would more than likely follow him to a new team yielding the same less than mediocre results his career has been so far. Only he can see an issue there and truly seek help to alter his mind if that's what it is and if he doesn't see a problem or even believe that's what it is then why would anything ever change from him? If it's mindset he will not magically get better one season unless he has worked on it intensely. That guy alters his mindset and watch how successful he becomes if my theory is correct. Question is would he even realize and come to terms with the true issue? Some do but many never will unfortunately.

[WhoKnows]

On 4/1/2024 at 10:32 AM, MHS831 said:

This is just some offseason logic because I was seeing the same old thread topics on the Huddle and decided to stir to pot a bit, and I assure you that I am prepared for the "he sucks!" and "What the hell is wrong with you!!!"  responses; I have doubled up on my meds today.  But as we focus on the top of the WR room--appropriately--we have a lot of stock in 33-34 year old Thielen and newcomer (5-10, 180lb) Johnson.  Neither Johnson nor Thielen is a candidate to return in 2025--but that remains to be seen. 

I had given up on TMJ, and I am not sure that the Panthers have not as well.  However, there is something I ran across that suggests he deserves one more season.  Based on this stat alone, the author predicted TMJ would have a breakout year in 2023 and "become a household name."  Obviously that did not happen, but there were many factors that prevented him to be able to excel in this particular area of his game--and we can blame Bryce and the OL, but maybe the factors were not in place for him to shine.

In 2022, Marshall was tops on the list of WRs who ran "GO" routes.  See #3, and remember how Canales used Evans in Tampa--

@PFF

1. Terrace Marshall: (97.1) 2. A.J. Brown: (96.6) 3. Mike Evans: (95.1)

Of course, Marshall did not have the yardage the others' had (Marshall had almost 500 yards in 2022), but he did not have the opportunities either. 

Marshall is still 23 years old. 

Diontae Johnson caught 59% of his targets in 2023, while Marshall Jr. caught 63%.  Thielen caught 76%, for context.  Chark, the person they brought in to be a deep threat, caught 56% of his targets. Mingo caught 52% of his targets.  The only difference between Marshall and all other WRs not named Thielen seems to be the number of overall targets.

This suggests (to me) that TMJ is not a great route runner since the GO is the easiest route to run.   I think that Canales will want to work to develop TMJ.  Put him in a position to succeed.   In 2023, TMJ played in 9 games and actually was targeted more than Mingo per game when he was playing (10% to 9%).  Mingo played in six more games.  Johnson, in Pittsburgh, was target 15% of the time, more than Thielen (13%). 

 

In 2022, however, TMJ averaged 17.5 yards per catch and had 490 yards, catching 60% of targets--his QB play was not good, but the OL was much better, allowing him to run longer, deeper routes.  I contend that TMJ's digression was likely due to the OL's performance in 2023, not allowing him the time to run the routes that have been proven to be the most successful in his tool belt. 

Again, he is 23, turning 24 in June.  Some of the WRs in the draft this season are that age.  Mingo turns 23 this month, fwiw.

Can Canales save TMJ? 

At 6'2" TMJ does have the size he needs to be an outside WR and he has show to be at his best running the same routes Evans and AJ Brown run--so who knows? 

With a new OL and new coaching staff, I say let him have camp to see what he can do.  Still, at age 23, there could be something there.

I realize some will say that both Mingo and TMJ suck, but TMJ actually outperformed Mingo last season if you break it down to the number of games, targets, and production per target. 

 

Didn’t you peg him as a 1000 yard WR last year? His go route stats were an illusion. He couldn't separate but was left almost alone several times in 2022 while we turned into a run first team. He’d have a big catch every week for a short stretch and that’s it. When they gave him the chance to be WR2 next to Moore, he lost the camp battle to Shi Smith and for those of us who watched preseason including one Baker TD pass to Smith where Baker’s primary target was TMJ who fell down when the CB had him in press. Baker saw him fall and threw a nice TD to Smith. TMJ is not that guy. I have more faith in Young turning it around than TMJ. If we draft well, TMJ should have 0 shot at seeing the field.

[WhoKnows]

2 hours ago, Ricky Prickles said:

I feel like his issues are mental. I don't think he has the mindset for the NFL and is probably somewhat of a baby brat. I could be wrong but he shows many characteristics of it. His physical talents made him great in high school and college playing at a top school alongside top talent but in the pros it takes that AND MORE. It takes the mindset as well. Those who have only physical talent and no mindset usually aren't successful long terms in the pros. They may be good for a season or get hopes up but they seem to fizzle fast. 

TMJ has not even shined for a season unfortunately. It HAS to be his mindset I believe. His mindset would probably make him study his playbook harder or make him desire to be the best or push him to be a "dawg" but I have a feeling it's not there. What he needs is a good mentor to tell him what he is doing wrong in his mind and he needs a good position coach or head coach to jump all over his ass and work on that mind. Or even a sport psychologist perhaps? It's easier for a coach to just cut a player like that because they can't spend so much time on just one. His has immense physical potential but I believe simply lacks a mindset for this all which holds him back completely as a player in the NFL. A change of scenery will not fix this as his mindset would more than likely follow him to a new team yielding the same less than mediocre results his career has been so far. Only he can see an issue there and truly seek help to alter his mind if that's what it is and if he doesn't see a problem or even believe that's what it is then why would anything ever change from him? If it's mindset he will not magically get better one season unless he has worked on it intensely. That guy alters his mindset and watch how successful he becomes if my theory is correct. Question is would he even realize and come to terms with the true issue? Some do but many never will unfortunately.

I don’t think it’s mental. He can’t separate at all when the CBs press him. It’s one thing when it’s college DBs and you have other weapons taking primary focus.

[Gapanthersfan]

I like TMJs game and potential. For him to succeed, he has to have a QB that throws an NFL ball. He needs to have it fired at him. A 22 yard dart to the back of the end zone on a post route. Same with Mingo to a certain extent. He’s also not a  ‘just give me the m’fin ball.’ He needs a stud QB to elevate his game.