Pump the brakes

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, NAS said:

Good post but I will play a little devils advocate.

I think this lop sided investment is needed in order to get Bryce off the ground and properly evaluate him.  Once he can develop for 3-4 years, ideally he won’t need as much support and the front office can take a more balanced approach to where they spend their cap $$. 
 

We always complained that even with Can he was never properly built around on the OL and wide receivers. It’s time to at least put Bryce or the next QB in position to succeed 

I had the same thought.  This gives them three years to adjust the roster and make it better fit the system.

[frankw]

What makes the debate even worse is some people here not only dug in on one QB over the other but when it became apparent BY was our pick they basically said Stroud was going to be a bust. And enough of this revisionist history crap. Nobody here had the Texans and their pre training camp outlook pegged as a playoff team. All this he went to a better situation mess came about once Bryce Young cemented his rookie season as one of the all time worst.

If you want the conversation to go away then stop making threads about it and definitely stop trying to rewrite history. Nobody wants to hear that nonsense anymore.

[bandu]

we just did this exact same thing with Sam Darnold.oh yeah we can fix him with a better oL & only if he has more time to throw & of course better weapons & changing the offensive scheme blah blah bust...just saying

Edited March 18 by bandu

[MHS831]

Here is my resume:

1. I was upset when the Panthers signed USFL reserve QB from New Orleans--he was playing behind 2 QBs named Billy Joe and then Aaron Brooks. 

2.  I loved the Kerry Collins selection

3. I liked the Chris Wienke selection

4. I wanted Andrew Luck and was mad at Jerry Richardson for the "pie chart" press conference that made him look like an "owner-centered" owner just before Andrew Luck had to decide whether or not he was returning to Stanford.  He decided to return, leaving us with Cam Newton.   A player I thought was fake and transferred because he was not better than The Golden Calf of Bristol. 

5. I thought Jimmy Clausen in round 2 was a steal.

6.  I wanted Stroud but I bought into the negative rumors that swirled and i believed the positives about Bryce,  I believe the more intelligent an athlete you are, the more you put yourself into favorable situations.  I am not giving up on Bryce---I have seen QBs turn it around many times before.   I have seen them bust much more often.

 

[CPF4LIFE]

42 minutes ago, frankw said:

What makes the debate even worse is some people here not only dug in on one QB over the other but when it became apparent BY was our pick they basically said Stroud was going to be a bust. And enough of this revisionist history crap. Nobody here had the Texans and their pre training camp outlook pegged as a playoff team. All this he went to a better situation mess came about once Bryce Young cemented his rookie season as one of the all time worst.

If you want the conversation to go away then stop making threads about it and definitely stop trying to rewrite history. Nobody wants to hear that nonsense anymore.

Couldnt have said it better myself. Its honestly just pathetic at this point of panthers fans spewing this non sense. We know what yall were saying leading up to the season, you not are not gonna change the narrative out of thin air like nobody will notice

[Pejorative Miscreant]

12 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

6.  I wanted Stroud but I bought into the negative rumors that swirled and i believed the positives about Bryce,  I believe the more intelligent an athlete you are, the more you put yourself into favorable situations.  I am not giving up on Bryce---I have seen QBs turn it around many times before.   I have seen them bust much more often.

 

Fair assessment in my opinion

I believe the org is doing there best to surround him with pieces that will help his progression.  If that progression does not happen they should look to correct this sooner than later (i.e.  in 2025 look to draft a QB if feasible)

My view of BY is that there is still hope but as the season went on, that diminished for me.  I want whoever they put behind center to succeed so I am pulling for him.

[pantherclaw]

6 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I am not going to say it again on here; we need to use Bryce's assets and not try to fit him into a system.  We need a system designed for him.  Bringing in the 2 guards is a start.  HOWEVER...

To me, the successful conversion of Bryce Young comes with a huge price tag.  If we turn it around and Bryce plays well because we have an offensive line that makes $90m, he is going to want $50m and the WRs will demand another $50m.  Not even mentioning RBs and TEs, but we will need $200m just for the offense at this rate.   I see this process as a long term bust--if it works, you are screwed because it requires a stud OL and stud WRs.  OTC Right now, before all free agents and draft picks are signed and a QB on a rookie deal posts the following: 

• Offense: $133,819,164
• Defense: $62,906,915
• Special: $6,431,168

If Bryce was a veteran on a second contract, you could add $40m to this figure.  We have no #1 WR and no stud TE. As you can see, the Offensive budget needs to be around $130m.  We are over that now--with QB on a rookie contract.

The only way to do this is by having 3 OL on a rookie contract at all times, and maybe only 2 WRs on second contracts. 

The struggle every team.in the NFL faces. 

[pantherclaw]

39 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Here is my resume:

1. I was upset when the Panthers signed USFL reserve QB from New Orleans--he was playing behind 2 QBs named Billy Joe and then Aaron Brooks. 

2.  I loved the Kerry Collins selection

3. I liked the Chris Wienke selection

4. I wanted Andrew Luck and was mad at Jerry Richardson for the "pie chart" press conference that made him look like an "owner-centered" owner just before Andrew Luck had to decide whether or not he was returning to Stanford.  He decided to return, leaving us with Cam Newton.   A player I thought was fake and transferred because he was not better than The Golden Calf of Bristol. 

5. I thought Jimmy Clausen in round 2 was a steal.

6.  I wanted Stroud but I bought into the negative rumors that swirled and i believed the positives about Bryce,  I believe the more intelligent an athlete you are, the more you put yourself into favorable situations.  I am not giving up on Bryce---I have seen QBs turn it around many times before.   I have seen them bust much more often.

 

As a life long Panther fan,  I have a similar resume with choices I would have made. 

As a life-long football fan, dating back before the Panthers existed,  I know all to well regardless of the team, regardless of their plans, it doesn't always pan out. Often it doesn't,  especially considering the goal of every team is to win the Lombardi Trohpy. 

I've learned to never get too high on a player, and never get too down.  

I've seen highly coveted players absolutely fail in the NFL, and undrafted players reach the HOF. 

I was alright with the Young pick.  My football eye knows that the teams failure this last season was not on Bryce.  I can't even give him a fair evaluation of my unprofessional opinion, based on how horrible the offense was as a whole. 

The reality is the team.needed rebuilding when they moved on from Cam.  Many many poor choices were made.  No patience played a big part of it. 

It's good to see the team investing in the offense the way it is.  Seems like a new chapter has finally begun, different than than what we've experienced as Panther fans.  

Regardless whom is the QB, the offense needs this investment.   I'm truly looking forward to being able to watch Bryce under conditions that don't destroy quarterbacks. 

[Khyber53]

Grab a rookie QB and while he is on his cheap contract for four to five years (if you take the option) and invest like mad in veteran quality linemen and receivers. Push it to the brink on cap space. Then as those five years go by, start drafting to back fill as those linemen and wide receivers either age out, underperform or start wanting more money.

That could give you maybe a 10 year cycle on offense that would work out financially.

The problem is, of course, you still have to bankroll a defense. The Colts did this with Peyton Manning and well, they got one ring out of it. If you can really put up the numbers, then the defense is just there to slow the other team down and exploit an error or weakness once in a while. 

Actually, if you think about it, what they did there changed the whole nature of the game, including the rules that helped it happen across the league. You might even be able to hang the success of Fantasy Football (or blame it) on that approach.

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

6.  I wanted Stroud but I bought into the negative rumors that swirled and i believed the positives about Bryce,  I believe the more intelligent an athlete you are, the more you put yourself into favorable situations.  I am not giving up on Bryce---I have seen QBs turn it around many times before.   I have seen them bust much more often.

 

My choice was AR but only at 9 with no trading up. Big however though, I thought pairing him with Frank Reich would have been a huge mistake because he definitely wasn't the coach to unlock his potential. The biggest concern I had with AR has already come to fruition, that his playing style would land him on IR. He doesn't have the body size to play like Cam did. 

[Jackie Lee]

6 hours ago, jfra78 said:

So basically by time we get a system in place for Bryce to thrive in, he will be due a second contract and not be affordable in the system anymore 

In that case just get an average qb game manager that can actually run a qb sneak and not fumble the second someone gets a finger on him and we've already upgraded over Bryce

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

My choice was AR but only at 9 with no trading up. Big however though, I thought pairing him with Frank Reich would have been a huge mistake because he definitely wasn't the coach to unlock his potential. The biggest concern I had with AR has already come to fruition, that his playing style would land him on IR. He doesn't have the body size to play like Cam did. 

AR just didn't have the experience for me to like him, but we would have Moore here and our first rounder.  I had the same concerns about injuries.  Unfair to AR, I got Willis vibes from him. 

Having said that, I am 100% convinced that the supporting cast is everything to the success of a QB and we had no supporting cast. 

With a new system, a decent OL coach, some new blood at WR, we are going to be much improved. Not sure about the defense--improving the offense might expose some weaknesses on D.

We could not have had worse ownership, front office decisions, coaching, and talent than we had in 2023.

[SmokinwithWilly]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

AR just didn't have the experience for me to like him, but we would have Moore here and our first rounder.  I had the same concerns about injuries.  Unfair to AR, I got Willis vibes from him. 

Having said that, I am 100% convinced that the supporting cast is everything to the success of a QB and we had no supporting cast. 

With a new system, a decent OL coach, some new blood at WR, we are going to be much improved. Not sure about the defense--improving the offense might expose some weaknesses on D.

We could not have had worse ownership, front office decisions, coaching, and talent than we had in 2023.

He seemed raw for the NFL level but he had those flashes of "it" that you either have or you don't. Steichen was the only choice as HC was Ben Johnson backed out. At 9, I think he would have been fine to sit behind a Darnold and learn until he was up to speed, but in Reich's system, he might have made Mitch Trubisky look like Pat Mahomes.

[MHS831]

Of course there are ways to overcome this, but when you look at QB salaries, Bryce cannot expect us to be hiring $20m guards and Tackles to keep him from soiling his pants.  

If I am GM, I am going to take a look at a formula...How do we have 6 offensive players on rookie deals at any given time?
1. I would not have a RB on a second contract.  Full Stop.

2. I would invest in OTs and Center. Only 1 OT (like now) on a second contract. With that formula, you would change out an OT after 8 to 10 years.  A center should be a QB's sidekick, like Goose and Maverick.  I would have TEs on rookie deals most of the time, and I would have 1 WR on a big deal (my #1).  INVEST IN SCOUTING instead of Free Agency.

3.  If there is a strong draft at a position and you have a player who is beyond his peak or prime, don't fall in love with him---trade him. 

4.  If the QB is not elite by the time he has played his fourth or fifth year, cut him loose.  Too many teams overpay for a QB that is never taking them to the promise land.  Cousins is a good example.  That leg humping munchkin in Arizona.