Fitterer vs. Morgan

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

He made one pro bowl. He was not elite IMHO. You aren’t the very best in your era and not make an all pro team. Lewis was a 12 time pro bowler and 7 time all-pro. Luke made the all-pro team every year of his career.

There are lots of guys who have had great SB games. Kong Ealy was our best guy in the last SB.

To be elite and best of an era, you’d be considered borderline HOF, i.e. next tier. 1 pro bowl isn’t close to either of those. He was very good and had injury issues but he wasn’t elite in my book.

I put Morgan in the Minter tier.  A Panther great.  Not NFL great. 

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, strato said:

 

Luke is way up there for me. I must have edited or bumped off where I said Luke was all time elite and even a couple of ticks down from that is still a very high level. It was something like that.

Haven’t thought about Morgan as a player for a long timeIt is coming back to me a little. Number one, he was a fierce competitor. IMO Morgan is a for sure hall of very good if he had had health and some longevity. He had that level of game. He wasn’t Luke but go find another.

Luke reminds me of Greg Maddux, football version. Not the most physically gifted but more than made up for whatever the perceived shortcomings with knowledge and cunning.

I saw that Dallas Thanksgiving game in 2015 recently. [grin] If anybody wants a pick me up, you don’t have to wait long for the good part.

Luke was ridiculously good. It’s funny that you say he wasn’t the most gifted. I’d say he was the combo of both. He was very athletic and mentally unchallenged. That’s why he is a HOFer.

[rayzor]

1 minute ago, WhoKnows said:

Just because he made trades doesn’t mean he was good at them. It’s almost like the Stockholm syndrome in here.

No one is saying he was good at what he did with the trades. He was a master of the deal who knew poo about personnel.

You can be both. Lots of good salesmen don't know what the hell they are talking about. He was great at working the phone and making deals.

You want extra picks or someone to get on the phone and get a player you want? He's your guy. You want someone deciding on which personnel to draft or move...he's NOT your guy.

[rayzor]

26 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

He made one pro bowl. He was not elite IMHO. You aren’t the very best in your era and not make an all pro team. Lewis was a 12 time pro bowler and 7 time all-pro. Luke made the all-pro team every year of his career.

There are lots of guys who have had great SB games. Kong Ealy was our best guy in the last SB.

To be elite and best of an era, you’d be considered borderline HOF, i.e. next tier. 1 pro bowl isn’t close to either of those. He was very good and had injury issues but he wasn’t elite in my book.

Ok. Sorry. Silly and insignificant discussion. Someone calls him elite. You don't agree. It's all opinion.

Why does it matter what someone's version of elite means when the topic is Morgan knows what good players look like?

[rayzor]

Some people just like to argue over the tiniest of matters, like myself.

Letting myself get sucked into stupid arguments. Bah...

[WhoKnows]

6 minutes ago, rayzor said:

No one is saying he was good at what he did with the trades. He was a master of the deal who knew poo about personnel.

You can be both. Lots of good salesmen don't know what the hell they are talking about. He was great at working the phone and making deals.

You want extra picks or someone to get on the phone and get a player you want? He's your guy. You want someone deciding on which personnel to draft or move...he's NOT your guy.

SMH. You’ve been arguing with me, don’t act like I’m the only one arguing. So what  I don’t consider a one time pro-bowler elite. You said he was among the best in his era. Same here, just making a lot of bad trades doesn’t make you a master of trades. The guy I replied to said he turned a 5th into a 3rd.

If you guys are going to go to hyperboles that Morgan was among the best in his era and that Fitterer was a master of the deal and turned 5ths into 3rds, I’ll reply and disagree.

[rayzor]

1 minute ago, WhoKnows said:

You’ve been arguing with me,

[strato]

8 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Ok. Sorry. Silly and insignificant discussion. Someone calls him elite. You don't agree. It's all opinion.

Why does it matter what someone's version of elite means when the topic is Morgan knows what good players look like?

I think it started with me and I don’t think I said Morgan was elite, and yeah it a weird tangent to be on. 

I am pretty sure Morgan was better at football than Fitterer.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, strato said:

I think it started with me and I don’t think I said Morgan was elite, and yeah it a weird tangent to be on. 

I am pretty sure Morgan was better at football than Fitterer.

Morgan for me is the 2nd best ILB in Panther history.  And we have had some good ones.  I feel confident on his take on the front 7 of the D and probably the OL.  

but saying that, do feel Morgan had to be involved in the DJ Johnson nonsense.   But that could have just been Morgan looking to add a nasty rep guy to a team that is full of nice guys.  

[d-dave]

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

Sorry, but Fitterer was a horrible GM and I’d put him up for the worst GM ever. What single thing made you think he was a smart football guy?

I'm not saying Fitterer was a good GM, but he was a smart football guy.  How else did he work his way up through the Seattle system during their heyday and get a GM job?  You don't hand that kind of power and authority to a moron like me.  Fitterer's record as a GM was pretty terrible, which makes him a pretty terrible GM.

[CRA]

47 minutes ago, d-dave said:

I'm not saying Fitterer was a good GM, but he was a smart football guy.  How else did he work his way up through the Seattle system during their heyday and get a GM job?  You don't hand that kind of power and authority to a moron like me.  Fitterer's record as a GM was pretty terrible, which makes him a pretty terrible GM.

Idiots are everywhere though.  Climbing the ladder isn’t always about how smart/good you are either.   Lot of the smartest/best folks don’t climb ladders as fast as others.   That’s just a fact of life.  Some people are just good at advancing themselves and working there way up in an org.  It’s why across so many professions people that shouldn’t find themselves at the top get there.  

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, rayzor said:

This. He was elite. One of the best of his era. Not necessarily HoF level, but still elite at a time where the MLB was more of a premium position.

But I guess it all depends on someone's standards as elite. To me, you can be among the very best at your position in your era, but still not quite be good enough for the HoF. That's just a higher bar.

He was elite for a very short period. If his body hadn't been so battered from the reckless abandon he played with, he probably would have been a HOFer.

[PNW_PantherMan]

Look I really hope that Dan Morgan works out as GM.  I hope that the moves that were made are good, and I hope our draft goes well.

But here's the thing with this comparison with Fitterer.  Lets look at the Burns trade.  I don't know if its confirmed, but the rumor is that Morgan was in support of Fitterer's decision to turn down the Rams offer.  You know the reason for that?  It's because if this team didn't improve, the most likely outcome is Fitterer and Morgan are both getting fired.  And neither of those guys is around to use the 1sts that were in 2024 and 2025.  So in retrospect, Fitterer made the right call in turning down the trade.  Dumping Burns then for those picks wasn't going to help their chances of survival to actually use those picks.

There is absolutely no way that Dan Morgan thought he was going to inherit the job after Scott got fired.  He had to assume the most likely outcome was both of them being ousted.

Now that his clock has reset with his promotion to GM, he's willing to move Burns for picks.  What I'm getting at here is the real difference between Fitterer and Morgan so far is their timeline.  When Fitterer joined the team the plan (seemingly from ownership) was to win immediately with mediocre to bad QBs from Free Agency or trades.  When that didn't work, they decided to throw everything at drafting Bryce young.  And now here we are, and maybe ownership has learned that we need to actually build the team and stop taking shortcuts.  And Morgan is in a position to benefit from that.

Fitterer was garbage, but its way too early to tell if Morgan will be any better at building a roster.

Edited March 16 by PNW_PantherMan

[DaveThePanther2008]

Morgan was an elite MLB. If he had had a full career who knows where he would have stood. I don't think we make SB 38 without him.

I do believe his playing days will help find those "Luvu" type of players.  Especially defensively. Our defensive players we've sign this off-season makes me feel those are young hungry guys looking to get their careers rebooted.  I also believe Evero is 100% on board. I believe 2 of our signees are former players of his.

Hit or miss I think he's poking in the right direction.