Fitterer vs. Morgan

[jfra78]

1 minute ago, Khyber53 said:

There's been a lot of activity and we've grabbed quite a few "Who's that guy" players with some decent stats. We've stayed out of the races for the star players and on paper it doesn't look like we've sold the moon to get anyone.

But right now, it's all on paper.

We've been down this road before. Sometimes there's magic, sometimes there's a lot of nothing. My knock on Morgan has been that his scouting team and training have basically been Fitterer's. And that doesn't give me any confidence in him.

I want him to prove me wrong on this. I really want him to prove me wrong. I'll happily eat roasted crow in exchange for a winning team with grit and determination.

Fitterer took advice from his scouting department but was looking for different things in players than Morgan will be.  One thing I'm sure of is that Morgan isn't an analytics guy

[WhoKnows]

6 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

There's been a lot of activity and we've grabbed quite a few "Who's that guy" players with some decent stats. We've stayed out of the races for the star players and on paper it doesn't look like we've sold the moon to get anyone.

But right now, it's all on paper.

We've been down this road before. Sometimes there's magic, sometimes there's a lot of nothing. My knock on Morgan has been that his scouting team and training have basically been Fitterer's. And that doesn't give me any confidence in him.

I want him to prove me wrong on this. I really want him to prove me wrong. I'll happily eat roasted crow in exchange for a winning team with grit and determination.

Exactly and unfortunately this team is way worse than the first year after Ron and the year Rhule was fired. When Fitterer got the reigns in 2022 (remember Rhule was forced to hire vet coaches and was already on the hot seat), he decimated our future picks and our talent in a matter of 2 years.

Remember that article that said we were the most delusional NFL fans? You can see it every year in here. I’ve been beaten down watching this team for 6 years after enjoying the many playoff years and fun players to watch. Until we see some results like Diontae actually being a 1000 yarder instead of the 1000 yard predicted paper tigers like TMJ who was a fan favorite in here (not me at all, couldn’t separate), I’m just watching and waiting. I still think we are a bottom dweller talent wise so again, let’s see how the draft goes.

[Jackie Lee]

This Sanders contract was so bad lol. Whether we keep him or cut him we owe him like $8-10M between this year and next. If Morgan can trade him to cut that in half I'd be impressed. 

 

[Call Me James]

We’ve gotten rid of a good amount of proven talent and replaced that with a lot of bargain bin guys and some guys with question marks.

In other words we have lost starters and haven’t really replaced them with better starters on the defensive side of the ball.

on offense, we’ve so far invested heavily in the line which is good and added another wr which is an upgrade over what we had, but nothing to write home about.

im not sure where all these thought pieces are coming from besides guys going through the process to get themselves in fan mode.

team overall doesn’t look any better than it did Jan 1.

hopefully the draft picks work and the new coach does as well.

Lastly, I hope Bryce will look like a no 1 overall pick worth trading the farm for.

Edited March 16 by Call Me James

[strato]

WhoKnows, Morgan was like the 11th pick or something. From what I remember which I am getting old, but injuries were what kept him from being elite. And he had a healthy career in school from what I think I remember. 

His Super Bowl speaks for itself. He was a leader on one of the SB teams. He was pretty good. 

To people stuck on the Burns thing, I tried to explain this as it was happening but it got lost in a deluge of reactions.

The success of the plan depended on those two guards. Quality guards. 

In a very time sensitive situation haggling over the price meant losing time and probably missing their first step in the plan. 

They absolutely HAD to have the cap space that day. 
Their thoughts were, I am sure, that the lost value in Burns would reappear in the form of success elsewhere if their plan works. They had to do it and hope they were right or go to plan B. I don’t begrudge them their Plan A. 

[BullCityP]

9 minutes ago, Call Me James said:

We’ve gotten rid of a good amount of proven talent and replaced that with a lot of bargain bin guys and some guys with question marks.

In other words we have lost starters and haven’t really replaced them with better starters on the defensive side of the ball.

on offense, we’ve so far invested heavily in the line which is good and added another wr which is an upgrade over what we had, but nothing to write home about.

im not sure where all these thought pieces are coming from besides guys going through the process to get themselves in fan mode.

team overall doesn’t look any better than it did Jan 1.

hopefully the draft picks work and the new coach does as well.

Lastly, I hope Bryce will look like a no 1 overall pick worth trading the farm for.

What good amount of proven talent besides Burns?

[WhoKnows]

23 minutes ago, strato said:

WhoKnows, Morgan was like the 11th pick or something. From what I remember which I am getting old, but injuries were what kept him from being elite. And he had a healthy career in school from what I think I remember. 

His Super Bowl speaks for itself. He was a leader on one of the SB teams. He was pretty good. 

To people stuck on the Burns thing, I tried to explain this as it was happening but it got lost in a deluge of reactions.

The success of the plan depended on those two guards. Quality guards. 

In a very time sensitive situation haggling over the price meant losing time and probably missing their first step in the plan. 

They absolutely HAD to have the cap space that day. 
Their thoughts were, I am sure, that the lost value in Burns would reappear in the form of success elsewhere if their plan works. They had to do it and hope they were right or go to plan B. I don’t begrudge them their Plan A. 

Lots of first round picks weren’t elite. Sorry, but Morgan never got to Luke’s level. We drafted DeAngelo and Stewart in the 1st and they were good, not elite. I didn’t say he was bad just not elite. We tend to overrate our players. Always have and I think most fans do.

I’m ok with the guards but if we took a poo deal on Burns due to cap space, that’s on us. We had plenty (Moton and others) to creat large amounts of cap space. I’d bet that the two guards’ cap hits are low in 2024.

I think we flubbed the extension so badly that we were forced to take low draft value. I’m fine with that but I don’t think cap forced us into the trade.

[jfra78]

5 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Lots of first round picks weren’t elite. Sorry, but Morgan never got to Luke’s level. We drafted DeAngelo and Stewart in the 1st and they were good, not elite. I didn’t say he was bad just not elite. We tend to overrate our players. Always have and I think most fans do.

I’m ok with the guards but if we took a poo deal on Burns due to cap space, that’s on us. We had plenty (Moton and others) to creat large amounts of cap space. I’d bet that the two guards’ cap hits are low in 2024.

I think we flubbed the extension so badly that we were forced to take low draft value. I’m fine with that but I don’t think cap forced us into the trade.

He was a good MLB and probably had the talent to be very good if healthy, but you're right he wasn't elite 

[Steelo]

43 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

This Sanders contract was so bad lol. Whether we keep him or cut him we owe him like $8-10M between this year and next. If Morgan can trade him to cut that in half I'd be impressed. 

He still has a chance to justify the contract, although I believe he'd be a prime contract fix candidate if it came down too it.  The only reason I don't think they've done it is to not kick the can down the road when there's an easy out next offseason.  Either he lives up to his billing or he's gone next season or even at the deadline this season.  That's between him and Dave imo.

I'm reserving judgement and not getting too high or too low.  Still a ways away from OTAs/Draft and such.  I like some moves, one notable move was MEH but I don't think we're done so I can't claim to have a judgement on the overall picture until it's done being painted.

[d-dave]

I have no doubt that Scott is a smart football guy.  I just don't think that Scott has the same leadership traits that Dan has.  Scott's approach of building consensus was great in concept.  It's how a lot of hard things are done.  The main difference is that Scott came in under Rhule, and his only coach he hired blew up in EVERYONE's face.  Scott was trying to make everyone happy.

One thing I'll say about Dan Morgan is that he's well respect in the league.  There's a difference in the inflection when people talk about Dan Morgan respect versus general respect.  For Morgan, it was always a matter of when he became a GM, not an IF.  

Conversely, since Dan was hired, he brought in Dave, and D&D (oh how I love that moniker =P) are aligned (take your shot).  So there is a clear plan in place.  I'm not saying that the 2024 Panthers are going to be world beaters, but they should be MUCH better than 2 wins.  How many actual wins?  4?  6?  Push to 7?  Who knows?  But since D&D are in ALIGNMENT (take your shot), the team will look different, and should ideally work better.

There's my hopium in mid March.  We'll see what happens.  It could all blow up again.  We'll have to see.  I'm excited though.  D&D seem like they have a plan, now let's see what the execution looks like.

[OldhamA]

12 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

He was a good MLB and probably had the talent to be very good if healthy, but you're right he wasn't elite 

He won the Dick Butkus, Bronko Nagurski and Chuck Bednarik Awards in 2000 - he was literally the best defensive player in College. 

Saying he wasn't as good as Kuechly is a ridiculously high bar. Kuechly wasn't elite, he was first ballot HoF standard.

Morgan was an excellent player and talent, he just sadly couldn't stay healthy in the NFL. 

[raleigh-panther]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

There's been a lot of activity and we've grabbed quite a few "Who's that guy" players with some decent stats. We've stayed out of the races for the star players and on paper it doesn't look like we've sold the moon to get anyone.

But right now, it's all on paper.

We've been down this road before. Sometimes there's magic, sometimes there's a lot of nothing. My knock on Morgan has been that his scouting team and training have basically been Fitterer's. And that doesn't give me any confidence in him.

I want him to prove me wrong on this. I really want him to prove me wrong. I'll happily eat roasted crow in exchange for a winning team with grit and determination.

Morgan had experience in Buffalo as well  let’s not discount that

as far as his time with fitterer, sometimes learning ‘what not to do’ is just as valuable as what to do.  I’d say he has been exposed to both. 

He has a losing poker hand that he is trying to turn into at least a draw over the next 3 years, and even to hit on the 3 years, the draft picks, free agents, and Young have to pan out 

of all his moves, the only one that bothered me was Luvu…he did not try hard enough in my opinion 

I don’t know what to expect.  I know improving that online was a have to…Corbett to center, no……but the draft comes 

I do believe, also, both Morgan and Canales will have little tolerance for underperforming…be that players or coaches or Bryce Young. 
 

my expectation is they will look like a overhauled team, playing better to the end of the season than the start 

5 wins and the ability to score 3 to 4 TDs a game is the high water mark for 2024

Edited March 16 by raleigh-panther

[JawnyBlaze]

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

After the first draft, people were lauding Fitterer. I’m waiting a bit to laud Morgan for getting bent over on the Burns trade value after taking so long that we looked desperate to take any offer.

I’m slowing my roll until the draft. Two guards and Diontae aren’t making us contenders. The draft (the next 2-3) is the only way we get back to the playoffs.

Morgan didn’t wait so long on the Burns trade that he got bent over. If he did the trade the day he was promoted to GM he wouldn’t have had any more leverage than he did when he traded him. Once Fitterer declined the Rams’ offer, all the leverage was in Burns’ hands and everyone knew it. 

[JawnyBlaze]

5 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

Morgan had experience in Buffalo as well  let’s not discount that

as far as his time with fitterer, sometimes learning ‘what not to do’ is just as valuable as what to do.  I’d say he has been exposed to both. 

He has a losing poker hand that he is trying to turn into at least a draw over the next 3 years, and even to hit on the 3 years, the draft picks, free agents, and Young have to pan out 

of all his moves, the only one that bothered me was Luvu…he did try hard enough in my opinion 

I don’t know what to expect.  I know improving that online was a have to…Corbett to center, no……but the draft comes 

I do believe, also, both Morgan and Canales will have little tolerance for underperforming…be that players or coaches or Bryce Young. 
 

my expectation is they will look like a overhauled team, playing better to the end of the season than the start 

5 wins and the ability to score 3 to 4 TDs a game is the high water mark for 2024

Yea, same, but I imagine he tried hard enough within reason. It’s very possible Luvu just wanted to move on, he had seen enough of this poo show and wanted to play in a defense that catered more to his skills which will lead to a bigger payday. I don’t blame him, and I don’t blame Morgan for not giving him a crazy contract.