Ok, doom-and-gloomers, break it down for me! :)

[MadHatter]

Leonard wasn't good enough for the Rams.....and has one game as a Panther under his belt. People I think tend to be assuming a bit too much about what he can do. All the guys on our DL.....are guys you would want coming into relieve a starter....NOT be your starter.

Neither was Lewis....what is you point?

I guess you forgot that the Rams let Lewis go and we picked him up....same with Brayton from the Raiders.

[CRA]

Neither was Lewis....what is you point?

I guess you forgot that the Rams let Lewis go and we picked him up....same with Brayton from the Raiders.

Lewis was imo ideal to come in off the bench. He should have been kept if Carolina was interested in being competitive in 2010 but they are looking to be competive past that.

Brayton was also ideal in that role. Problem is Carolina is using lesser veriosn fo these guys as starters now. that is a problem if winning in 2010 is a thought.

[MadHatter]

Lewis was imo ideal to come in off the bench. He should have been kept if Carolina was interested in being competitive in 2010 but they are looking to be competive past that.

Brayton was also ideal in that role. Problem is Carolina is using lesser veriosn fo these guys as starters now. that is a problem if winning in 2010 is a thought.

Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to have kept Lewis and had him as part of the rotation. However, I don't think he is all that much better than Leonard or Tyler.

[ncbobcat]

Here's the crux of the argument. We all see the changes were to make the team better in the future, just some of us believe that future is beyond 2010, while some think it's this year. I'm in the first camp.

I'm seriously thinking about selling my tickets this season.

[CRA]

Here's the crux of the argument. We all see the changes were to make the team better in the future, just some of us believe that future is beyond 2010, while some think it's this year. I'm in the first camp.

I'm seriously thinking about selling my tickets this season.

some are overlooking the fact Jerry is ready to move on from Fox. It simply makes sense with the lockout to let Foxy ride out this last year in a lame duck season..........but that logic doesn't make sense to build toward 2012 AND try to put a team Fox can win with today.

[MaineManPanther]

The only player that will be a true loss is Peppers. Everybody else released can be replaced without much difficulty.

Who exactly did we lose that will cost us more games? More points?

Lewis? A average player who was released by his former team. Who are we replacing him with? Lenard, thigpen,? Both average (as far as we know) players who werent valued highly by the other team. I see no loss.

Same with Brayton. An average player.

Hoover, did have a good year but. We still have a great running duo , talneted offensive line. As long as Fimmaeta plays decent I don't see how we have a huge dropout rushing wise.

Im not saying were going to be great, but theres no reason to believe were going to be that much worse.

[CRA]

The only player that will be a true loss is Peppers. Everybody else released can be replaced without much difficulty.

Who exactly did we lose that will cost us more games? More points?

Lewis? A average player who was released by his former team. Who are we replacing him with? Lenard, thigpen,? Both average (as far as we know) players who werent valued highly by the other team. I see no loss.

Same with Brayton. An average player.

Hoover, did have a good year but. We still have a great running duo , talneted offensive line. As long as Fimmaeta plays decent I don't see how we have a huge dropout rushing wise.

Im not saying were going to be great, but theres no reason to believe were going to be that much worse.

The DL has slowly been getting worse and worse......great players being replaced w/ marginal ones. You can't tell me if we put the worse DL in the NFL on the field next year it won't have a tremendous impact on the team. It isn't just about Peppers leaving w/ no replacement.....it is the fact, Rucker, Jenkins, Peppers, etc. have all slowly left and not a one has ever been legitimately replaced. There is a good reason to believe we will be significanty worse on D defense than the past 2-3 years......it all starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball.....and Carolina now as nothing on D.

[MaineManPanther]

The DL has slowly been getting worse and worse......great players being replaced w/ marginal ones. You can't tell me if we put the worse DL in the NFL on the field next year it won't have a tremendous impact on the team. It isn't just about Peppers leaving w/ no replacement.....it is the fact, Rucker, Jenkins, Peppers, etc. have all slowly left and not a one has ever been legitimately replaced. There is a good reason to believe we will be significanty worse on D defense than the past 2-3 years......it all starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball.....and Carolina now as nothing on D.

Take Peppers out, who did we lose that is going to make this D line that much worse this year then last year?

[CRA]

Take Peppers out, who did we lose that is going to make this D line that much worse this year then last year?

Peppers was the DL the past two seasons. It was not a great DL.....pretty average one...but he made it what it was. Whether Pep haters want to admit and despite his questionable effort....he made everyone's job a little easier and made them a little better overall.

The DL was already running just about as slim and weak as you could get away with....Carolina had Pep to help hide it. Rucker, Jenkins.....and now Pep were never replaced......and the 2010 DL will show how big each hole really is without Pep there to help hide it.

[ncbobcat]

The DL has slowly been getting worse and worse......great players being replaced w/ marginal ones. You can't tell me if we put the worse DL in the NFL on the field next year it won't have a tremendous impact on the team. It isn't just about Peppers leaving w/ no replacement.....it is the fact, Rucker, Jenkins, Peppers, etc. have all slowly left and not a one has ever been legitimately replaced. There is a good reason to believe we will be significanty worse on D defense than the past 2-3 years......it all starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball.....and Carolina now as nothing on D.

Bingo! We have yet to replace Jenkins, as I've stated many times, so how long will it take to replace Peppers? At one point we had the best damn D-line in the NFL and we have lost them piece-by-piece, all the while finding inadequate "replacements".

[MaineManPanther]

Peppers was the DL the past two seasons. It was not a great DL.....pretty average one...but he made it what it was. Whether Pep haters want to admit and despite his questionable effort....he made everyone's job a little easier and made them a little better overall.

The DL was already running just about as slim and weak as you could get away with....Carolina had Pep to help hide it. Rucker, Jenkins.....and now Pep were never replaced......and the 2010 DL will show how big each hole really is without Pep there to help hide it.

I was arguing to the idea that we were worse because of our other losses.

I can't argue that Peppers loss won't hurt.

[CRA]

I was arguing to the idea that we were worse because of our other losses.

I can't argue that Peppers loss won't hurt.

My point was, Pep has helped mask how big of a problem the rest of the DL has been. Remove him and it is really hard to imagine how bad it will be

[MadHatter]

The DL has slowly been getting worse and worse......great players being replaced w/ marginal ones. You can't tell me if we put the worse DL in the NFL on the field next year it won't have a tremendous impact on the team. It isn't just about Peppers leaving w/ no replacement.....it is the fact, Rucker, Jenkins, Peppers, etc. have all slowly left and not a one has ever been legitimately replaced. There is a good reason to believe we will be significanty worse on D defense than the past 2-3 years......it all starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball.....and Carolina now as nothing on D.

You think we will be worse...therefore we will be worse.

That is your arguement.

Peppers is a loss....Kemo and Lewis were average...as are Leonard and Tyler. Brayton will either be re-signed or we will replace him with a comparable player.

I don't know whether we will be better or worse....and neither do you. I think the talent outside of Peppers is at least equal to what we had on the DL. How that plays out in the season...wait and see.

[MadHatter]

My point was, Pep has helped mask how big of a problem the rest of the DL has been. Remove him and it is really hard to imagine how bad it will be

I will bet you right now that we will win at least 10 games next season...care to gamble?