Ok, doom-and-gloomers, break it down for me! :)

[monstercat]

BTW, how many Panthers fans were really excited when they signed Lewis and Brayton? Lewis was considered a 1st round bust in St. Louis and Brayton's only claim to fame was kicking somebody in the nads.

Also, a lot of fans were screaming that kemo was grossly overpaid in his first couple of years as a Panther. I seem to remember complaints about how he wasn't even drafted and he couldn't rush the passer. Well, Louis Leonard actually can rush the passer...that much he proved in his short time on the active roster last year.

[The Saltman]

BTW, how many Panthers fans were really excited when they signed Lewis and Brayton? Lewis was considered a 1st round bust in St. Louis and Brayton's only claim to fame was kicking somebody in the nads.

Also, a lot of fans were screaming that kemo was grossly overpaid in his first couple of years as a Panther. I seem to remember complaints about how he wasn't even drafted and he couldn't rush the passer. Well, Louis Leonard actually can rush the passer...that much he proved in his short time on the active roster last year.

honestly whether people like to hear it or not. The only loss on the DL I am concerned about is Julius Peppers. Yes I said it Julius peppers. Overpaid or not he still got to the quarterback, and I am not too sure the other guys can step up.

[Cyberjag]

the craptastic DL hurts the LBs. That is what I meant by downgrades the LBs.

We had a decent pass rush at times last year thanks to the one man show of Peppers. There is little to support "we are finally good in coverage". Godfrey and Harris have never been good at it. Marshall was also had more bad days than good last year.

You can't downgrade the Panther DL and not expect to effect the LBs and secondary. It is not just a downgrade on DL......it might be the worst in the entire NFL. That kind of crap up front will serious effect everyone else at this level.

Godfrey did well in coverage his rookie year. Although he had a few blown assignments, when he was where he was supposed to be he played well. Under Meeks the entire defense had to adjust their approach, and you need to look at the second half to see how they did (it took the whole defense a while to "get it"). Godfrey and Martin both did well in coverage in the second half last year, and Marshall and Gamble were solid all year. So on the coverage argument, well I think you're mistaken.

You can go by NFL stats : http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

or something like FootballOutsiders: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

We had a great pass defense last year, despite facing Brees twice, Ryan, Romo, Warner, Brady, Favre, and Eli Manning. And that wasn't all because Peppers was applying pressure--the guys in back have a lot more talent than we've been accustomed to.

[CRA]

Godfrey did well in coverage his rookie year. Although he had a few blown assignments, when he was where he was supposed to be he played well. Under Meeks the entire defense had to adjust their approach, and you need to look at the second half to see how they did (it took the whole defense a while to "get it"). Godfrey and Martin both did well in coverage in the second half last year, and Marshall and Gamble were solid all year. So on the coverage argument, well I think you're mistaken.

You can go by NFL stats : http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

or something like FootballOutsiders: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

We had a great pass defense last year, despite facing Brees twice, Ryan, Romo, Warner, Brady, Favre, and Eli Manning. And that wasn't all because Peppers was applying pressure--the guys in back have a lot more talent than we've been accustomed to.

Godfrey was horrible his rookie year. Always out of position and made Lucas look much worse than he was. Only thing Godfrey did the 2nd half of 09 was learn how to tackle.....coverage was just as weak as it always was with him.

We had a poor rush defense which gave an illusion the pass d was much better than it was.

Stats don't always tell the truth.

[1989]

Where do I start? By just getting into FA you mean the process, yes, it is very early on, but what you are not realizing is that in this youth/cost saving movement, the team is not going to bring in any name that 90% of us have heard of. I admit not knowing the new WR we just signed, meaning they will be role players with "potential".

Next the draft. We do not have a first round pick. Typically, your first and second rounders start or have the potential to start. Third and fourths usually are role players. Right there we are only getting 2 maybe 3 players that contribute more than special teams and spot play.

So far trough FA and the draft, we are looking at prorbably 3 starters, new to our team, schemes and lacks cohesion.

Where are the rest comming from? Answer...part time players from last year that MUST step up. Obviously if they don't we are in worse shape than last season.

Lastly, out side of Peppers, who basically forced the Panthers into a decision to bankrupt themselves or let him walk, what move was...in your words, necessary?

you dont think releasing Delhomme was necessary??? Kemo....who by the way, never had a sack as a panther. Diggs is great but very old and has 2 very good, young guys behind him. Vincent, you could argue should have stayed... It was Moose' time to leave, I believe Jarrett can be great. Brayton was just average. Charles Johnson and Everett Brown are gonna be a tandem for years, mark my words. I wouldve kept Damien Louis but again, we havent addressed the draft/free agency and we there, too, have some great young guys.

[Khyber53]

Okay, here's my breakdown of it.

Our running game will still be the strength of our offense, if something crazier than cutting Hoover doesn't happen. Losing Hoover hurts, but we may see less and less plays with a fullback anyway. Williams and Stewart are premiere, proven talents. Sutton may be the new Nick Goins. We're better off in the running game than most any other team in the league. And a great part of our running game is the offensive line. Of course, downfield blocking by Moose may be missing as well, we may not break as many big runs. Running game grade A- (solid A last year).

On the offensive line, we're replacing on road grader with another one with fewer miles on it. Hate to see Vincent go, but honestly, he'll find a home somewhere out there. Run blocking will remain fantastic and I really believe that pass protection should stay strong, except for the loss of Hoover in both cases. Offensive line grade: B+ (same as last year).

Passing game: Accuracy should go up and interceptions should, by all means, be better than last year. However, our passing game still breaks down to Steve Smith and, um, well, anyone? Moose probably won't be brought back and Jarrett has done absolutely nothing to make me think he will fill that worthy's shoes. I mean, Keary Colbert was roundly derided around here, but at least he had one good year. Jarrett had one good game when the Saints were resting for the playoffs. Nothing on the shelves here besides a sturdy group of TEs who may be needed more for blocking than receiving. Perhaps Wallace Wright will be the new Moose. Passing game grade: C- (last year D-).

Defensive line: Was our defensive line really any good last year? I saw little to make me think so. Pep got 10 sacks an interception and a couple of fumbles. Strangely, historically that made a ho-hum year for him. Thomas was a blast to have around, but he mainly just clogged the middle of the field and belly flopped on any offensive linemen that fell down. While that's a pretty good job at nose tackle, it's not the hardest skillset to replicate. Lewis was, well, remarkable for being rarely remarked upon while working beside a cast of unknowns -- that doesn't say a whole lot for him. Brayton did yeoman's work and resurrected his career over the last couple of years. I really think he may be back with us before training camp. Our new cast of characters along the line have shown momentary flashes of brilliance, but they really played like youngsters who didn't have a lot of game time. They'll get that this year, but they don't have to work that hard to compare to last year's line. And if they aren't the best in the league, they will have our linebackers covering their weaknesses, just like the '09 line had. D-Line grade: C+ (last year C+).

Linebackers: Strength of our defense last year and it should be again. Beason plays with intensity and intelligence. He drops back well in the Tampa 2 scheme, but still is a monster run-stopper. Davis will make a comeback from injury, I have no doubt, and be an even bigger presence in the opponents' backfields this year. I hate to see Diggs go, him having been a steady performer behind the line and a veteran force on Special Teams. He leaves big, but not gigantic, shoes to fill. Our depth will work well here and we have a cast of potential replacements, all of whom would have started for any other team by now, shy of the Ravens. Linebackers grade: Solid A (last year A+).

Defensive backfield: Chris Harris continued being the team's shock trooper, braggart and enforcer. Pretty much exactly what you want from a safety. Gamble didn't get a lot of picks last year, but he also wasn't thrown against that much -- think quiet shutdown corner. Marshall did well, but wasn't the presence he was as a nickel back, and I believe Munnerlyn surprised everyone. Martin and Godfrey were, well, good but not spectacular. This year should see a similar performance, perhaps better as the group settles into the defensive scheme's second year. DB grade: B- (last year C+).

Special teams were, well, atrocious last year. Kasay was relatively safe, but missed a couple more than expected. I believe he still has it, but the curtain may be drawing closed before long. Baker was, well, having a poor year. A bit was him and his mechanics, but a huge part of it was poor coverage teams and poor blocking in front of him. Rhys did what he was paid for, but seemed to have lost a bit of zip on those kicks at times, and now he's gone on to more artificial pastures. Special teams tackling was a joke of epic proportions. And now with the loss of Hoover and Diggs, our STs are going to be young and inexperienced. Hopefully we can find someone willing to return a kick now and then, too. ST grade: D+ (last year F).

Can we be better for 2010? Sure, it could happen and most likely, we will look good, really good, for a span of the season. But there will be a rough patch like most young teams face. We should be competitive early in the season, but be prepared for a four game losing streak somewhere around the middle.

[ncbobcat]

you dont think releasing Delhomme was necessary??? Kemo....who by the way, never had a sack as a panther. Diggs is great but very old and has 2 very good, young guys behind him. Vincent, you could argue should have stayed... It was Moose' time to leave, I believe Jarrett can be great. Brayton was just average. Charles Johnson and Everett Brown are gonna be a tandem for years, mark my words. I wouldve kept Damien Louis but again, we havent addressed the draft/free agency and we there, too, have some great young guys.

No, Delhomme said he would be willing to accept the back up role. Since we had to pay him anyhow, why not keep him in reserve. Now we have to pay ANOTHER back up in addition to Delhomme.

As to the rest...again, moves based off forcasting into the future. You said the moves were necessary. Peppers was the only necessary move, the rest were not and certainly not all in one offseason. Choice does not equal must. Those were clearly chocies by management and were not necessity.

[panthers55]

It seems to be a battle to see who can write the most about this as a way to win with quantity so let me be brief. This discussion is premature and what we field in September may not resemble what we have now. But if we were to take our current squad into the season we won't win 5 games. Our defense will be exposed as our secondary will be suffer with little pressure on the quarterback. We have no receivers which will put 8 guys in the box all day. And Moore can't be expected to score 25-30 points without a supporting cast. If we start out slow on defense the pressure will be on the offense and Moore has shown he can play very well when he isn't pressured and can manage the game. But in his 8 starts most of his picks come when he tried to do more than he is capable of. That will be case if we get in shootouts.

[cookinbrak]

Honestly???

I think we will be the best expansion team in the league this year.

[godscowboy68]

honestly whether people like to hear it or not. The only loss on the DL I am concerned about is Julius Peppers. Yes I said it Julius peppers. Overpaid or not he still got to the quarterback when he wanted to, and I am not too sure the other guys can step up.

Fixed

[panthers55]

Godfrey did well in coverage his rookie year. Although he had a few blown assignments, when he was where he was supposed to be he played well. Under Meeks the entire defense had to adjust their approach, and you need to look at the second half to see how they did (it took the whole defense a while to "get it"). Godfrey and Martin both did well in coverage in the second half last year, and Marshall and Gamble were solid all year. So on the coverage argument, well I think you're mistaken.

You can go by NFL stats : http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

or something like FootballOutsiders: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

We had a great pass defense last year, despite facing Brees twice, Ryan, Romo, Warner, Brady, Favre, and Eli Manning. And that wasn't all because Peppers was applying pressure--the guys in back have a lot more talent than we've been accustomed to.

Godfrey did well his rookie year??????????? I thought you were swearing off the heavy drinking during the day. J/K

They did do well the second half against the pass but still struggled against the run. Even then look at the turnovers and sacks the second half versus the first half. The bottom line is that at least 5 starters from that defense won't be playing this year. Of the 11 that is almost half. So the performance of last year won't matter this year. Without pressure on the quarterback our secondary will fall apart as quarterbacks have all day to find a receiver. The cover 2 is predicated on a strong pass rush by the front four. Right now the whole projected starting lineup on defense has only 2 sacks more than Peppers had himself. (10.5 for peppers, 12.5 sacks for all 11 guys projected to start this year).

[AceMan]

I'mma just say this.

We will have to be extremely lucky with our D-line. That is my biggest concern.

[MadHatter]

My biggest concern is the D line, Davis coming off of a torn ACL, and no pressure on the QB causing really poor downfield coverage by the secondary....

But maybe I am thinking too much into things/

Replacing Kemo and Lewis with Leonard, Tyler, and Irving should provide more pressure up the middle. Lewis and Kemo go no push.

Peppers got good pressure in about 50% of the games. I think that Johnson and Brown can provide adequate pressure.

[CRA]

Replacing Kemo and Lewis with Leonard, Tyler, and Irving should provide more pressure up the middle. Lewis and Kemo go no push.

Peppers got good pressure in about 50% of the games. I think that Johnson and Brown can provide adequate pressure.

Leonard wasn't good enough for the Rams.....and has one game as a Panther under his belt. People I think tend to be assuming a bit too much about what he can do. All the guys on our DL.....are guys you would want coming into relieve a starter....NOT be your starter.