Worried about morale this season....

[turnmyleftheadphoneup]

i don't get it... a few seasons ago, people were bitching about Fox not getting younger players in here. now that he's actually doing it, people are freaking out... just because hoover was cut, doesn't mean our running game is going to falter. i've seen the comparisons b/n hoover and fiammetta, and the differences are very few in between.

look, there's not gonna be a lockout for 2011 or whenever. owners need the money in this economy. players need the money. hell, players need the game. and fans would go stir crazy if there were no football for an entire year. so stop with all that nonsense.

yeah, a bunch of vets were cut. only two deserved to stay (D. Lewis, and B. Hoover). of the two that stayed, neither cannot be replaced with younger, fresher legs. so i don't see what the big deal is. yeah, some leadership will be missing, but the other guys will have to step up and play bigger roles in leadership, which i believe a few of these grown men can do. and it's not like moore is a scrub rookie... he's been in the league for a few years now. been in our system, he knows the game now, and i think our team will be just fine.

[Panthro]

I'm worried about Morales...

[carolinanimal]

i think it all comes down to this. i doesnt matter how much "heart" you have or how "hungry" you are or you just need to "step up" whatever buzz words that you can come up with. it is all about talent. that combined with experience that makes a good player. this is what seperates the average guys from the great players. it is not so easy just to say "step up" to some players. they may or may not have the talent level to take it to the next level or experience for that matter. that is gained OVER TIME. that is why vets are important there experience tempered with youths talent makes for a dangerous combination in any group.

also just because we say someone has to step up doesnt mean they will.

also these young guys havent "earned" anything. they were basically handed the job. they didnt have to beat out a vet to get it. they are just coming of injured reserve(which is another issue in itself) to a starting spot.

People are looking at the loss of the vets in the wrong way. i keep seeing everyone break it down individually. But we need to look at there loss as a whole. individually they may not have been probowlers, but what team has that many probowlers anyway?. but collectively their experience combined with their skills, help us out tremendously last year. People act like we drafted tank tyler and leonard and they grew up in our system. they havent. not saying they wont get better or arent any good. but to expect a line made up of inexperience players with barely a years starting experience between them to be dominant is crazy. i know young guys need a shot but most teams dont give there guys a shot like this. what teams do you know of that have dump one whole unit and given it to rookies or guys with less than a years experience all together? not many i gaurantee you that.

[Cyberjag]

It surely is salary dumping under the guise of getting younger and the ruse has apparently worked on some of you. The issue isn't getting younger and letting guys step up so much as it is dismantling the veteran leadership all at once. We have rebuilt at positions and turned over veterans with younger guys just like we did with Morgan by bringing in Beason. But we never made so many wholesale changes at once or expected so many inexpereinced new guys to step up all at the same time. Guys like Beason will be a leader but guys like Smith won't. He is a locker romm problem not a solution. Even now veterans like Williams and Harris are questioning these moves. That will divide the locker room not join it. And the reality is that a radical apporach wasn't necessary. We finished winning 4 out of the last 5. Our defense and offense were clicking. We could have gotten rid of Jake and Kemo for example without a big issue. But instead we went on a cutting spree and got rid of everyone over 30 save 3 players. We were already one of the youngest teams in the league.

Should we have made some changes, sure. But anyone can see this was alot more than getting young. This was dumping salaries and almost guaranteeing Fox will be a lame duck coach.

We won't need big-time leadership on offense, so you don't need to worry about Smitty not stepping up there. Fiametta may not be as good as Hoover, but with a healthy Smitty and Williams, along with getting Gross and Otah back, Moore should be able to move the ball. He's going to have a great line and *probably* more targets than Jake did last year. I'm saying that based on an assumption that the Front Office gets some more WR talent in the offseason.

As a reminder, with a patchwork OL, no Williams, and with Smitty spending some time out injured, Moore completed 62% of his passes and posted a rating in the 90s. That was against some decent defenses as well.

But on Defense there's every reason to be concerned. I don't mind cutting Diggs or Kemo, I'm skeptical that they would have kept their starting jobs anyway. It sucks that we lost Peppers, we can't replace him. I think Lewis would have been a good influence to have. I liked Brayton too. But they're gone, so we have to look at what's left.

At DE we have two starters who should be able to contribute. They won't be feared, but neither should be easily exploited. Neither showed up as inadequate at any point in the season last year, and both get a decent press. At DT I have high hopes for Leonard (I think we disagree there), and the wild card is at the UT position. Fortunately, it's a LOT easier to find quality help at that position. I don't know what the answer is, but I have enough faith in our DL coach to believe that we'll get SOMETHING of a pass rush.

The Defensive Line is the weak link for sure. Linebackers get Davis back, and with him and Beason we could line up Jase on the strong side and still have one of the better units in the league. The Secondary is solid and deep for the first time in the Fox era. It's the line that's an issue, only the line. I wouldn't expect it to be a strength, but I don't think that we'll lay down and let teams move the ball at will against us either.

And really, even with Peppers and Lewis, has the line been considered a strength since Jenkins left?

Turnover like this isn't unprecedented in the NFL, turnover like this isn't common, but it's not unusual. And the results are not always bad, nor are they always good. You can go read your stories, I'll read mine (check out the Rams defensive changes in 2000--they cut NINE defensive starters and went from the 23rd ranked defense to the 3rd best--that's not a typo).

We've got a lot of turnover, and it's quite obvious that some of them were salary decisions (Peppers, Kemo). Some were not (Delhomme, Hoover). Some, you just don't know why yet. But there's no way that the team is being set up to lose. And there's no way that the team morale in August will suffer as a result of what happens in February. If it does, then the people who let it get to them will be in next years' rounds of cuts while those who outplayed them enjoy their starting positions. And give Fox some credit. He's not a bad coach all of the sudden, is he?

Really, the whole premise of this thread is worthy of ESPN.

[carolinanimal]

we are not a "doom" crew. but can you honestly say with all the experience we lost we are a better team right now? all the experts even our own beat writers recognize this. you guys act like all of a sudden we got a probowl roster on our hands. we just refuse to drink the koolaid and are not on the "YEAH!!! WE CUT DELHOMME! EVERYTHING IS FINE" high. we are not saying that we will be 1-15 agian, but to act like we are a team that is set to be a playoff threat is crazy.

[Cyberjag]

we are not a "doom" crew. but can you honestly say with all the experience we lost we are a better team right now? all the experts even our own beat writers recognize this. you guys act like all of a sudden we got a probowl roster on our hands. we just refuse to drink the koolaid and are not on the "YEAH!!! WE CUT DELHOMME! EVERYTHING IS FINE" high. we are not saying that we will be 1-15 agian, but to act like we are a team that is set to be a playoff threat is crazy.

We are not a better team. But we have more potential at most positions, and the offseason is not over yet.

Do you think that the offense will be worse?

[carolinanimal]

We won't need big-time leadership on offense, so you don't need to worry about Smitty not stepping up there. Fiametta may not be as good as Hoover, but with a healthy Smitty and Williams, along with getting Gross and Otah back, Moore should be able to move the ball. He's going to have a great line and *probably* more targets than Jake did last year. I'm saying that based on an assumption that the Front Office gets some more WR talent in the offseason.

As a reminder, with a patchwork OL, no Williams, and with Smitty spending some time out injured, Moore completed 62% of his passes and posted a rating in the 90s. That was against some decent defenses as well.

But on Defense there's every reason to be concerned. I don't mind cutting Diggs or Kemo, I'm skeptical that they would have kept their starting jobs anyway. It sucks that we lost Peppers, we can't replace him. I think Lewis would have been a good influence to have. I liked Brayton too. But they're gone, so we have to look at what's left.

At DE we have two starters who should be able to contribute. They won't be feared, but neither should be easily exploited. Neither showed up as inadequate at any point in the season last year, and both get a decent press. At DT I have high hopes for Leonard (I think we disagree there), and the wild card is at the UT position. Fortunately, it's a LOT easier to find quality help at that position. I don't know what the answer is, but I have enough faith in our DL coach to believe that we'll get SOMETHING of a pass rush.

The Defensive Line is the weak link for sure. Linebackers get Davis back, and with him and Beason we could line up Jase on the strong side and still have one of the better units in the league. The Secondary is solid and deep for the first time in the Fox era. It's the line that's an issue, only the line. I wouldn't expect it to be a strength, but I don't think that we'll lay down and let teams move the ball at will against us either.

And really, even with Peppers and Lewis, has the line been considered a strength since Jenkins left?

Turnover like this isn't unprecedented in the NFL, turnover like this isn't common, but it's not unusual. And the results are not always bad, nor are they always good. You can go read your stories, I'll read mine (check out the Rams defensive changes in 2000--they cut NINE defensive starters and went from the 23rd ranked defense to the 3rd best--that's not a typo).

We've got a lot of turnover, and it's quite obvious that some of them were salary decisions (Peppers, Kemo). Some were not (Delhomme, Hoover). Some, you just don't know why yet. But there's no way that the team is being set up to lose. And there's no way that the team morale in August will suffer as a result of what happens in February. If it does, then the people who let it get to them will be in next years' rounds of cuts while those who outplayed them enjoy their starting positions. And give Fox some credit. He's not a bad coach all of the sudden, is he?

Really, the whole premise of this thread is worthy of ESPN.

only problem is meeks line cant afford to be average, like chris harris says(you know that guy that actually plays for the panthers) it is all about the dline in meeks defense. doesnt matter how good your linebackers and secondary are if you have a subpar dline. in this scheme there are not a lot of blitzes. meeks scheme cant afford a supbar dline.

[carolinanimal]

We are not a better team. But we have more potential at most positions, and the offseason is not over yet.

Do you think that the offense will be worse?

no. i actually am not worried about the offense at all. there will be a learning curve with moore, but i think he will be fine. he has showed us more than the players on the dline have shown, which is my main problem. i still hope we get him a speedier option at the #2 wr position other than dj:(

[Cyberjag]

only problem is meeks line cant afford to be average, like chris harris says(you know that guy that actually plays for the panthers) it is all about the dline in meeks defense. doesnt matter how good your linebackers and secondary are if you have a subpar dline. in this scheme there are not a lot of blitzes. meeks scheme cant afford a supbar dline.

Quick-name a starting DT for Indianapolis that other teams feared while Meeks was there!

And are you saying that our line has been above average for the past few years? Based on what?

[turnmyleftheadphoneup]

yeah, our offense will be fine. it's the defense that everyone is so worried about. and i don't blame 'em. but i still think we'll be ok. the way our defensive tackles work, they rotate in and out. so to have two players with half the talent as say... an albert haynesworth, would equal an albert haynesworth, except in two big freakin bodies up front. the williams brothers up in minnesota didn't start in minnesota... so maybe we get lucky and find two underrated guys like them and get back to stopping the run like john fox's teams are known for.

[carolinanimal]

Quick-name a starting DT for Indianapolis that other teams feared while Meeks was there!

And are you saying that our line has been above average for the past few years? Based on what?

none. but the ends were greatly feared. quick name a de on the panthers that is greatly feared.

[Cyberjag]

none. but the ends were greatly feared. quick name a de on the panthers that is greatly feared.

Brayton was feared? I like the guy, but come on!

Peppers was it, and if we still had Peppers a lot of people would be saying that we were poised to get better. So we lose Peppers, does that lose the season for us?

[turnmyleftheadphoneup]

Brayton was feared? I like the guy, but come on!

Peppers was it, and if we still had Peppers a lot of people would be saying that we were poised to get better. So we lose Peppers, does that lose the season for us?

no, but it'll be an obstacle that we'll have to face once training camp starts. i still think e. brown is gonna be a beast in ron meeks' system. and if we draft another defensive end in the draft, i think we'll be set.

[Sloth]

i think it all comes down to this. i doesnt matter how much "heart" you have or how "hungry" you are or you just need to "step up" whatever buzz words that you can come up with. it is all about talent. that combined with experience that makes a good player. this is what seperates the average guys from the great players. it is not so easy just to say "step up" to some players. they may or may not have the talent level to take it to the next level or experience for that matter. that is gained OVER TIME. that is why vets are important there experience tempered with youths talent makes for a dangerous combination in any group.

also just because we say someone has to step up doesnt mean they will.

also these young guys havent "earned" anything. they were basically handed the job. they didnt have to beat out a vet to get it. they are just coming of injured reserve(which is another issue in itself) to a starting spot.

People are looking at the loss of the vets in the wrong way. i keep seeing everyone break it down individually. But we need to look at there loss as a whole. individually they may not have been probowlers, but what team has that many probowlers anyway?. but collectively their experience combined with their skills, help us out tremendously last year. People act like we drafted tank tyler and leonard and they grew up in our system. they havent. not saying they wont get better or arent any good. but to expect a line made up of inexperience players with barely a years starting experience between them to be dominant is crazy. i know young guys need a shot but most teams dont give there guys a shot like this. what teams do you know of that have dump one whole unit and given it to rookies or guys with less than a years experience all together? not many i gaurantee you that.

omg he didnt say superbowl GET HIM