What does Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwin think about our offseason?

[Snake]

That is your analysis, because he didn't make an impact against Arizona, he isn't an impact player? Well that proves it for sure. You win. LOL:shocked:

Sorry for me to think a player would show up in a playoff game..... Your right when he puts a beating on the Lions that really makes up for it.

[carolinanimal]

Sorry for me to think a player would show up in a playoff game..... Your right when he puts a beating on the Lions that really makes up for it.

wasnt some of our young core in that game? what did they do?

[blackcatgrowl]

Ryan said we were definitely doing this to save money and felt that they were not giving Fox the tools to be successful this year. He said that it almost guaranteed that Fox would be a lame duck coach and be let go at the end of the season. He felt that the moves didn't make much sense particularly when we didn't have many draft picks and some of the better guys in free agency were actually the guys we were letting go.

This is exactly my take on the situation too.

This could be proven wrong if we go for a big name acquisition during Free agency. I really feel like this isn't going to happen though. I honestly believe JR is looking to reboot the Panthers in 2012, and is letting 2010 be.... well, whatever it turns out to be (i.e. win/loss doesn't matter).

[MadHatter]

This is exactly my take on the situation too.

This could be proven wrong if we go for a big name acquisition during Free agency. I really feel like this isn't going to happen though. I honestly believe JR is looking to reboot the Panthers in 2012, and is letting 2010 be.... well, whatever it turns out to be (i.e. win/loss doesn't matter).

Who are the better guys in FA that we let go?

Peppers: yes

Delhomme: what a joke. The same experts that are calling him the top FA QB were the same ones crucifying him last season.

Diggs: not signed

Kemo: signed to non-guaranteed money

Lewis: not signed

Hoover: not signed

Johnson: not signed

[blackcatgrowl]

Who are the better guys in FA that we let go?

Peppers: yes

Delhomme: what a joke. The same experts that are calling him the top FA QB were the same ones crucifying him last season.

Diggs: not signed

Kemo: signed to non-guaranteed money

Lewis: not signed

Hoover: not signed

Johnson: not signed

Wait a minute... your evaluation of lost talent is if they have been scooped up yet? Even though its only been a week for everyone except Hoover, which has been 4 days?

:rofl:

Uh... the right team has to come along with the right offer. These things take more than 7 days usually. If you want to revisit this assessment in, say, 3 months, and none of their statuses change, then I'd say you have a point. Till then, there is no concrete evidence that by promoting these guy's backups to starters the team performed addition by subtraction.

[Squirrel]

All this tells me is that our Superbowl odds should be huge right now. Think I will bet $100 on the Panthers winning it all.

Team isnt built yet and we will pick up some veterans that will fill some roles. Counting on Jarrett would be stupid. I think he will improve but we will pick up a quality WR.

[ladypanther]

Actually I expect that Ryan and Kirwin do alot of research each week before they talk to each of their guests. I suspect that much of the fluff in the interview are because Fox doesn't say much and uses coach speak. He talks to Del Rio for example the same day and the interviews are in greater detail because Del Rio tells it more straight forward. If you want to know what they know listen to the Xs and 0s discussions. Both of them are very knowledgeable about the finer points of schemes, blocking, coverages alignments etc. I have learned quite a bit about football from them.

I agree that they know a lot about football. And they do a good job explaining the technical stuff and are very nice to their callers. They have a ladies' hour on Fri afternoon which is fun. I do listen to them. I still think their Panther knowledge is a bit lacking...as with most of these guys. Except for that (and the Panthers don't come up that much), they have a very good show, IMO.

[panthers55]

Couldnt you argue that our FO knows even more then them? Im sure our FO has done studying and planning as well.

That assumes that the FO objective is to get better and the plan is to improve from last year. If it was to save money and build for after the lockout, then Kirwin will be right on and accurately commenting on the FO's actions. And the FO would be doing exactly what they are.

[panthers55]

When we had Brayton, lewis, the first year, werent they unproven vetrans as well?

Core players? Peppers was the only big loss. Who did we lose that was so integral to this team, that can't be replaced with another average Vet?

At the time Brayton and Lewis were both past first round picks who did not live up to expectations primarily due to not being in the right scheme. Lewis started off as a backup and worked his way into a starting role. Brayton came in and did fairly well right away.

But now they are both very productive and core parts of the defensive line. I don't see anybody in free agency at DT or DE that would be ungrades and cheaper. I doubt anyone we get in the draft would be able to start and do better. Especially when hopefully we go after a wide receiver with our 2nd so it can't be higher than a third rounder. Both Brayton and Lewis were first rounders coming into the league.

[koolkatluke]

When we had Brayton, lewis, the first year, werent they unproven vetrans as well?

Core players? Peppers was the only big loss. Who did we lose that was so integral to this team, that can't be replaced with another average Vet?

You have no clue do you? How long have you been a fan?

When Lewis came in we Had Jenkins and Kemo Lewis was just a back-up.

Brayton was only on the team for 2 years and we had Pep who put up double digits both years.

Diggs, Lewis, Brayton, and Hoover are big loses.

Diggs is better then Connor and Anderson still.

We now have too have CJ (who regressed) Brown (who is still young and might not be big enough too stop the run yet) Leonard (only played 1 game and coming off and injury) Tyler (same) Irving (who didn't even make it out of preseason) and EJ (off the field headache)

Do any of these guys look like they can be a leaders of the Dline? This is why Lewis is a lose.

Fimmetta (sorry if it's wrong) hasn't shown he can do Hoover job even with the bad back.

We have no depht at DE it would be nice too have Brayton who knows the system and his teamates in the rotation.

JMO.

[MaineManPanther]

You have no clue do you? How long have you been a fan?

When Lewis came in we Had Jenkins and Kemo Lewis was just a back-up.

Brayton was only on the team for 2 years and we had Pep who put up double digits both years.

Diggs, Lewis, Brayton, and Hoover are big loses.

Diggs is better then Connor and Anderson still.

We now have too have CJ (who regressed) Brown (who is still young and might not be big enough too stop the run yet) Leonard (only played 1 game and coming off and injury) Tyler (same) Irving (who didn't even make it out of preseason) and EJ (off the field headache)

Do any of these guys look like they can be a leaders of the Dline? This is why Lewis is a lose.

Fimmetta (sorry if it's wrong) hasn't shown he can do Hoover job even with the bad back.

We have no depht at DE it would be nice too have Brayton who knows the system and his teamates in the rotation.

JMO.

And last year Lewis was a average starter along with Brayton, meaning they can easily be replaced with average play. How has johnson regressed? In less snaps he had more pressures then brayton.

When Hoover missed five games last year we still averaged over 150 yards per game.

Lenard and tyler all are Vets who have played in the NFL before.

[MaineManPanther]

At the time Brayton and Lewis were both past first round picks who did not live up to expectations primarily due to not being in the right scheme. Lewis started off as a backup and worked his way into a starting role. Brayton came in and did fairly well right away.

But now they are both very productive and core parts of the defensive line. I don't see anybody in free agency at DT or DE that would be ungrades and cheaper. I doubt anyone we get in the draft would be able to start and do better. Especially when hopefully we go after a wide receiver with our 2nd so it can't be higher than a third rounder. Both Brayton and Lewis were first rounders coming into the league.

What scheme was wrong for Lewis? Both Brayton and Lewis have done nothing to be amzed about. They were average players overall. So all we need to replace them is average players.

[pantherclaw]

Seems you like most just listen and give credibility to those who agree with you. Otherwise you ignore them.

That is my point.

Well, regardless of whether I agree with an analyst or not, doesn't change my opinion of them. There are ones I like and ones I don't like. I don't listen to ones I like any more than the others. I take what any of them say, with a grain of salt. They are entitled to their opinion ~ just as I am entitled to mine.

That being said, the one thing that Kirwin said that I agree with is that we need to get more depth, as now what was our quality depth, are becoming starters. (and I actually like Kirwin, but don't agree with him much).

[MaineManPanther]

That assumes that the FO objective is to get better and the plan is to improve from last year. If it was to save money and build for after the lockout, then Kirwin will be right on and accurately commenting on the FO's actions. And the FO would be doing exactly what they are.

Im arguing about how they view the talent of the players. Obviously as this point it seems the FO has more faith in its replacemnts (if they turn out to be that) then kirwan. But I would argue the FO who has seen much more tape and practise then Kirwarn would no more in that department.