What does Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwin think about our offseason?

[FelineFANatic]

When you lose talent, you need to replace talent. Based on what has transpired do far, would you say the talent level has improved or declined on the team? That is the key question we are looking at now.

[ladypanther]

They agreed that you have to replace older veterans with younger guys, their issue is that you don't do it with a bunch of guys in one season. Most teams bring guys on a few at a time, not through wholesale changes all at the same time. This isn't getting them seasoned by bringing them along over time through a rotation. This is like throwing someone into the deep end after a few lessons and telling them to sink or swim. Doesn't exactly work that often.

Problem has been that Foxy can't seem to let go. JR (prolly) had to start feeling better then start cleaning things up.

The point is not whether you know more about the players because you watch them, but whether you actually know more about evaluating talent and commenting on it and can predict how they will do. They watch coaches tape and talk with coaches, players and other so called experts. Who do you talk with?

You do not know how much research those 2 guys do on the Panthers. It seems to me that they spend more time/energy on the glamore teams. They do a fluff weekly interview with Foxy each week during the season. (On Sirius all the head coach interviews sound more like PR). When the Panthers come up, there have been several times when it does not sound like they did their homework. They can't really go into indepth detail like they can with other teams and sometimes even their basic facts are wrong.

Just sayin.

[GRWatcher]

They were actually positive on Fiametta. Other than Moore however, not so much on guys like Jarrett or our defensive line.

As for drafted players, how many of them outside of first rounders come in and start? Yeah guys like Godfrey. Anyone remember how many times everyone on here complained about how lost he looked in 2008. We have five lousy draft picks. Exactly how many starters do you think that will net. You want 4th and 6th rounders starting this year?

They were positive on the other FB's too when they were drafted & in camp, that's why they were drafted. I agree with you about draft rookies. I'm not in any way excited about this year. Been there, done that, didn't work.

My point is that saying someone was cut or not signed because someone younger/draft choice/rookie is there to "take over" is a dumb excuse/reason for the cut. Someone is going to have to come up with better, concrete reasons for me.

[panthers55]

Well, except the d-line, there isn't any whole sale changes.

QB ~ We are moving on in a new direction. For that to happen, we had to release Delhomme. Something the experts still can't grasp.

OLB ~ Both guys fighting for the position are veterans in the NFL, and been with our defense. So it's not quite throwing them into the deep end either.

Now lets address the d-line.

Our DE's aren't rookies? True. They are not. Brown is the youngest, but he's also the one with the most upside. Do I think they are going to set the league on fire, no, I don't. Brown will be ready to start, and Johnson hasn't looked bad at all in rotation. We will have to get some depth behind them, but depth is easy.

DT ~ the positions I'm sure most of us are concerned about. We have lots of bodies, many with good NFL experience. The team likes them, or they wouldn't have traded for them. Also with the draft as deep as it is at every position, a good DT can be drafted. While I am concerned, Im not going to freak out about it. There is lots of off season, and things will become clearer come pre-season.

WR ~ This is not a new need. This is the same need we've had since Moose originally went to Chicago. To me, this is the position that is most unsettled at this point.

FB ~ All due respect to Hoover (love ya guy, always have, always will) but I'm not going to let emotions come between the team going with the FB they drafted to take over.

They grasp it. They know that most times putting the reins in the hands of a player who has played in 8 games in his career isn't a sure thing. They also know that we have no other guys other than Cantwell on the roster at quarterback.

The O-line and running backs are the only thing to get excited about.

As for the defensive line, Brown has 1 start, Johnson has 6. Louis played in 1 game for us and Irvin didn't see the field last year. Both of them are coming off IR so it isn't a guarantee they will both be healthy and productive.

The linebackers and secondary are pretty solid but in a cover 2 they know that unless you get serious pressure from the front four you get seriously exposed much like Chicago did this year. So what did Chicago do? Shore up their defensive line with our best player.

As for wide receiver it sure has been a need which we haven't addressed in years. Problem is we aren't good at finding talent in the draft or free agency at that position. Who is still out there in free agency under 25? How many wide receivers have we picked in the draft who have started for us right away? Even Smitty started as a returner not a receiver.

Yeah things look great right now.

[DaCityKats]

as long as the fo brings some more people in than i feel comfortable going into next year.but right now i dont think this team is better than it was before they went on a cutting spree.besides jake.but it is still early and there is plenty of time.

[Delhommey]

*do

And yes we're a 5-11 team next year currently.

[err456]

We were an 8-8 team (thanks Jake) with all the vets we let go.

We may be 8-8 again and have a young team and be in great shape when things get back to normal.

Could be worse.

Have faith in JR. He's done pretty well for himself in the past.

[panthers55]

What did he base NO getting better on?

Didn't comment in detail on NO just the Panthers.

[panthers55]

We were an 8-8 team (thanks Jake) with all the vets we let go.

We may be 8-8 again and have a young team and be in great shape when things get back to normal.

Could be worse.

Have faith in JR. He's done pretty well for himself in the past.

When Moore came in he had nothing to lose and was able to be the hero and bring us out of 4-7 into 8-8. What happens if we start out losing instead of winning. How much confidence will players have if he goes on a losing streak. How much confidence will he have in himself if things start to sour. Up to now he had a nucleus of veterans to help him and keep things positive. Right now his 4 years of experience trumps alot of guys who will be starting. Young teams can easily get down on themselves and mail it in instead of fight through it. Without the veterans we will not have the settling influences we had this year. As for JR doing well, we have had a winning season 4 times in 15 years. Not exactly a great track record. Now that he has cut the rug out from under Fox we can't even guarantee 7-9.

[panthers55]

They were positive on the other FB's too when they were drafted & in camp, that's why they were drafted. I agree with you about draft rookies. I'm not in any way excited about this year. Been there, done that, didn't work.

My point is that saying someone was cut or not signed because someone younger/draft choice/rookie is there to "take over" is a dumb excuse/reason for the cut. Someone is going to have to come up with better, concrete reasons for me.

I agree with you.:thumbsup:

[CRA]

I was listening to Pat Kirwin and Tim Ryn and a caller from Charlotte asked them about what they thought about the moves we made so far.

Ryan said we were definitely doing this to save money and felt that they were not giving Fox the tools to be successful this year. He said that it almost guaranteed that Fox would be a lame duck coach and be let go at the end of the season. He felt that the moves didn't make much sense particularly when we didn't have many draft picks and some of the better guys in free agency were actually the guys we were letting go.

Kirwin for his part said he felt sorry for Fox and Hurney because they were going to have a chance to compete given how many veterans were let go. He said the problem was that we would be counting on at least 6-7 guys to step up and start for us. It isn't bad to do that with a couple of guys but we were counting on too many guys all to have to step up at the same time. If only 2 or 3 actually do it, we have serious holes and issues. He then went down the list of new guys who had to step up and asked if they were capable. Here was his analysis:

Moore- yes

Jarrett- no

Johnson- no

Brown- no

Fiametta- likely

Connor- possible

Irvin- no

Louis- no

So he said outside of Moore and Fiametta none of the others were likely to be able to fill in adequately. He went on to say the other problem is who else is in our division. New Orleans will be getting better, Atlanta was improving and even Tampa will be improved. Even if we stay the same which he doesn't think we will, we didn't win the division last year and will have an uphill climb against better competition. He concluded that we were in trouble this year and could very well struggle. He felt we were going backwards while the rest of the division was getting better.

No I don't know how to get the link as I listened to it live but it paints a bleak picture. If they were just talking heads I might not give it any attention. But Kirwin used to be a GM and Ryan played in the league on the line so honestly I think they know what they are talking about. Truth is, outside of the euphoria I find on this forum, no one is touting these moves as anything but a mistake.

They hit the nail on the head. I agree wtih everything in this post.

[Jackofalltrades]

Other than the player assessments I agree entirely.

[Snake]

Who have we let go that was an impact player? I dont even count Peppers because he only performed when he wanted too and that did happen until beason called him out. The fact is we still have a solid core of players and our turnovers will be better for the simple fact that Jake is not throwing the Football.

[panthers55]

Problem has been that Foxy can't seem to let go. JR (prolly) had to start feeling better then start cleaning things up.

You do not know how much research those 2 guys do on the Panthers. It seems to me that they spend more time/energy on the glamore teams. They do a fluff weekly interview with Foxy each week during the season. (On Sirius all the head coach interviews sound more like PR). When the Panthers come up, there have been several times when it does not sound like they did their homework. They can't really go into indepth detail like they can with other teams and sometimes even their basic facts are wrong.

Just sayin.

Actually I expect that Ryan and Kirwin do alot of research each week before they talk to each of their guests. I suspect that much of the fluff in the interview are because Fox doesn't say much and uses coach speak. He talks to Del Rio for example the same day and the interviews are in greater detail because Del Rio tells it more straight forward. If you want to know what they know listen to the Xs and 0s discussions. Both of them are very knowledgeable about the finer points of schemes, blocking, coverages alignments etc. I have learned quite a bit about football from them.