The CAP is now $255.4 MILLION….. now pay Burns, Brown, Luvu and let’s get this ship righted

[Jon Snow]

5 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

if he was on his rookie deal still, then maybe.  But I seriously doubt a team is going to give up 2 firsts knowing he is going to cost 30 million.   If Burns has come off that number then we might as well try and sign him if its reasonable

The Panthers really only have 2 choices now. Sign him to a long term contract that would be appealing to another team to take off their hands for draft compensation. That's is they are smart enough to pull that off. But my fear is they want to keep him. Which is another issue within itself.

Or they let him walk. Which is what other teams are waiting for and most likely Burns himself. This would be my preferred option as well. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

15 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

if he was on his rookie deal still, then maybe.  But I seriously doubt a team is going to give up 2 firsts knowing he is going to cost 30 million.   If Burns has come off that number then we might as well try and sign him if its reasonable

Exactly.  If we outright Franchise Tag him than he can't negotiate with any team.  If we use the Non-Exclusive Tag than if someone offers him a better deal than what we are giving him, we simple refuse and take the two picks.  If they are offering him something similar to what we were offering, we match the offer and get him for the price we wanted in the first place.  If no one offers him a deal than we are in the position to offer him a lower deal than we initially offered him. 

We lose nothing by going this route.

[Steelo]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

if he was on his rookie deal still, then maybe.  But I seriously doubt a team is going to give up 2 firsts knowing he is going to cost 30 million.   If Burns has come off that number then we might as well try and sign him if its reasonable

With the NE tag, if another negotiate a deal and he agrees to it we can match that deal say it’s 25M.. or refuse to match and the team that strikes a deal with him owes us 2 1sts. It’s not a tag and trade per se. it’s what the Ravens did with Lamar last offseason. No one offered him anything and they negotiated a deal that worked with both sides. Nothing is saying the deal HAS to be 30M. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

15 minutes ago, Steelo said:

With the NE tag, if another negotiate a deal and he agrees to it we can match that deal say it’s 25M.. or refuse to match and the team that strikes a deal with him owes us 2 1sts. It’s not a tag and trade per se. it’s what the Ravens did with Lamar last offseason. No one offered him anything and they negotiated a deal that worked with both sides. Nothing is saying the deal HAS to be 30M. 

Exactly what I was saying.  If we Franchise tag him, we are stuck with negotiating with him and he's hell bent on getting 30 million and all we get is another year of half-ass performance.  If we go Non-Exclusive Tag than we throw him out there and see what other teams are offering without losing him if we want to match their offer. 

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Exactly what I was saying.  If we Franchise tag him, we are stuck with negotiating with him and he's hell bent on getting 30 million and all we get is another year of half-ass performance.  If we go Non-Exclusive Tag than we throw him out there and see what other teams are offering without losing him if we want to match their offer. 

Nobody is offering close to what he wants. Especially with first round pick(s) attached. The Panthers won’t give him what he wants, and they made him think he’s worth that much, and don’t have to surrender picks. 
 

21M for another half assed year. While he cripples any ability to do anything else because he’s tying up your cap space. In a year that should be focused on rebuilding the entire team. He might report opening weekend. Or not. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

6 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Nobody is offering close to what he wants. Especially with first round pick(s) attached. The Panthers won’t give him what he wants, and they made him think he’s worth that much, and don’t have to surrender picks. 
 

21M for another half assed year. While he cripples any ability to do anything else because he’s tying up your cap space. In a year that should be focused on rebuilding the entire team. He might report opening weekend. Or not. 

You and @mrcompletely11 continue to say the same thing over and over but can't or won't give your reasoning on any of the tags available.  Tell me which tag you would use and why? 

It's tiring to see "Nobody is offering blah blah blah" and nothing substantial to back it up.  Your take is purely speculation.  There are several teams that would love to team Burns up with their DE.  

IMO Burn is the perfect Robin to anyone's Batman.  His best year was when Reddick on his other side.  You put his with a player like Crosby in LV or either one of the Bosa's.  That's a good duo. The Lions have been mentioned several times has highly interested in Burns.  Tag team him with Hutchinson and you got a nasty duo.  

[Toomers]

34 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

You and @mrcompletely11 continue to say the same thing over and over but can't or won't give your reasoning on any of the tags available.  Tell me which tag you would use and why? 

It's tiring to see "Nobody is offering blah blah blah" and nothing substantial to back it up.  Your take is purely speculation.  There are several teams that would love to team Burns up with their DE.  

IMO Burn is the perfect Robin to anyone's Batman.  His best year was when Reddick on his other side.  You put his with a player like Crosby in LV or either one of the Bosa's.  That's a good duo. The Lions have been mentioned several times has highly interested in Burns.  Tag team him with Hutchinson and you got a nasty duo.  

Because my reasoning is no tag. Just let go and take 3rd comp pick. Or you will be stuck with a malcontent at 21M in a year that it won’t matter. If he shows up and doesn’t hold out. 
 

Players making as much as Burns wants or deserves don’t need others to enhance their game. If that is the case, they aren’t worth the money. Burns had one more sack with Reddick as he had this year. A player who regularly outperforms him for 15M/yr. You don’t give Robins 20-30M. 
 

Now, your turn to explain why a team would give up more than the 2nd the Bears did for Sweat? A better player who agreed to a reasonable contract. But you’re getting 2 1sts for a guy who was playing afraid to get hurt? 

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Because my reasoning is no tag. Just let go and take 3rd comp pick. Or you will be stuck with a malcontent at 21M in a year that it won’t matter. If he shows up and doesn’t hold out. 
 

Players making as much as Burns wants or deserves don’t need others to enhance their game. If that is the case, they aren’t worth the money. Burns had one more sack with Reddick as he had this year. A player who regularly outperforms him for 15M/yr. You don’t give Robins 20-30M. 
 

Now, your turn to explain why a team would give up more than the 2nd the Bears did for Sweat? A better player who agreed to a reasonable contract. But you’re getting 2 1sts for a guy who was playing afraid to get hurt? 

Letting Burns walk is about as dumb as paying him 30m.  If we're only going to get a 3rd out of him than it's better to Tag him and hope his value improves during the season.  Makes no sense to just let him walk. 

Sweat's a good player but I don't necessarily believe he's better.  Burns with the right squad would show his worth. 

One you will be getting him on a long-term contract.  Two as I said earlier there are many teams that value him more than the "Huddle" does.  Burns tagged with any good DE makes them a formidable duo. 

Another reason why I think other teams would still be highly interested in Burns.  Our offense did not put any of our opponents' offenses in passing mode.  Remember we NEVER lead in the 4th Quarter.  Teams aren't pressing to throw the ball.  Keep running it and playing solid defense.  Make Young march on 14 or 15 play drive.  It NEVER happened.  So, they run the ball.  Hard to get sacks when the opponent is running the ball.  

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

Because my reasoning is no tag. Just let go and take 3rd comp pick. Or you will be stuck with a malcontent at 21M in a year that it won’t matter. If he shows up and doesn’t hold out. 
 

Players making as much as Burns wants or deserves don’t need others to enhance their game. If that is the case, they aren’t worth the money. Burns had one more sack with Reddick as he had this year. A player who regularly outperforms him for 15M/yr. You don’t give Robins 20-30M. 
 

Now, your turn to explain why a team would give up more than the 2nd the Bears did for Sweat? A better player who agreed to a reasonable contract. But you’re getting 2 1sts for a guy who was playing afraid to get hurt? 

I don’t think NFL people think Sweat is better than Burns. I am 100% all in for trading him (Rams deal was a no brainer except for our dumbass) but I would definitely tag and see if you can get trade bites.

We have Brown and Luvu and that’s it for a few more years. Iky and Young aren’t getting big time second contracts. Horn will be lucky to get big money. Our cap space is not going to be an issue for a long time. It’s worth the $21M for one year to try and get better than a late 3rd. We’ll likely blow that money on mediocre offensive spots if we have it to spend.

[Johnstonny]

5 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

The Panthers really only have 2 choices now. Sign him to a long term contract that would be appealing to another team to take off their hands for draft compensation. That's is they are smart enough to pull that off. But my fear is they want to keep him. Which is another issue within itself.

Or they let him walk. Which is what other teams are waiting for and most likely Burns himself. This would be my preferred option as well. 

Be nice if we can get something for him....i'm not opposed to the tag for whatever 22m....we have to quit giving away players at some point... but I understand about your preferred option. Fitt was astonishingly horrible...you couldn't produce his results even if you never watched an NFL game.

[Toomers]

2 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Letting Burns walk is about as dumb as paying him 30m.  If we're only going to get a 3rd out of him than it's better to Tag him and hope his value improves during the season.  Makes no sense to just let him walk. 

Sweat's a good player but I don't necessarily believe he's better.  Burns with the right squad would show his worth. 

One you will be getting him on a long-term contract.  Two as I said earlier there are many teams that value him more than the "Huddle" does.  Burns tagged with any good DE makes them a formidable duo. 

Another reason why I think other teams would still be highly interested in Burns.  Our offense did not put any of our opponents' offenses in passing mode.  Remember we NEVER lead in the 4th Quarter.  Teams aren't pressing to throw the ball.  Keep running it and playing solid defense.  Make Young march on 14 or 15 play drive.  It NEVER happened.  So, they run the ball.  Hard to get sacks when the opponent is running the ball.  

  But with any tag comes the risk that he just plays on the tag for 21M. Afraid to get hurt again. On a rebuilding team that not winning 5 games with or without him. Then they try again next year at around 26M. Think he will have more value then. And after July 15 he can’t play for anyone else. Burns has all the leverage. Panthers sit in limbo while teams fail to match his unreasonable asking price. 
 

Sweat is one of the best run defenders in the NFL. Burns is well….not. Sweat led two different bad teams in sacks last year. Without the 3-4 All Pros that Burns requires to be effective. Or the scheme. Or the offense. Or his fears of injury. Which of the Edge guys making 20M+ suck against the run? 
 

 What does getting him on a long term contract do? Send away draft picks to overpay a player who hasn’t come close to earning what he wants. Who are these teams? Where are these offers. Why isn’t he tagged right now. If it’s such an easy decision why not place it on him. Can’t do anything until that’s done. 

  Every team runs the ball on you because they can block Burns with a mediocre TE. This we aren’t ahead Colton’s just the next excuse for”this is the year” he puts it all together. We can go back and read my statements from soon after they turned down the trade. I’ve been dead on the whole time. But any random scenario you can invent is some sort of fact. 

[Toomers]

41 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

I don’t think NFL people think Sweat is better than Burns. I am 100% all in for trading him (Rams deal was a no brainer except for our dumbass) but I would definitely tag and see if you can get trade bites.

We have Brown and Luvu and that’s it for a few more years. Iky and Young aren’t getting big time second contracts. Horn will be lucky to get big money. Our cap space is not going to be an issue for a long time. It’s worth the $21M for one year to try and get better than a late 3rd. We’ll likely blow that money on mediocre offensive spots if we have it to spend.

Since 2020, Sweat has the highest run defense grade on PFF. And led two teams in sacks. Burns has one of the lowest, and wasn’t better than Sweat at anything last year. The Huddle doesn’t recognize run defense, but NFL people do. 
 

  21M to see if a 3rd can become a 2nd. Maybe. And that’s only if a team meets his “asking” price. They might waste the money. But that was the same reasoning people were using to not trade him to the Rams. “We can’t draft anyhow” was the common theme. 

[csx]

6 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

The Panthers really only have 2 choices now. Sign him to a long term contract that would be appealing to another team to take off their hands for draft compensation. That's is they are smart enough to pull that off. But my fear is they want to keep him. Which is another issue within itself.

Or they let him walk. Which is what other teams are waiting for and most likely Burns himself. This would be my preferred option as well. 

The Panthers cant just snap their fingers and sign him to an appealing contract. They've been attempting that for at least  year. If they could they would have. That's up to Burns.

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, csx said:

The Panthers cant just snap their fingers and sign him to an appealing contract. They've been attempting that for at least  year. If they could they would have. That's up to Burns.

They can pay his asking price and all would be forgiven. Which is exactly what I do not want them to do. The 27 million they offered him is ridiculous. I hope that was all Fitterer and now that Morgan is in charge he has rescinded that offer.