Pat Yasinskas the voice of reason??

[panthers55]

Being happy with the cuts we've made isn't being short-sighted at all. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite of that, as most people who ARE happy with the changes that the team has made are looking past this upcoming season, to the future of the team as a whole. Having said that, if anyone's assuming that we're going to go 13-3 this season based solely on the players that we've LOST, that WOULD be short-sighted.

Right now, the future of the team looks pretty damn good. We're an extremely young team, true. And we may very well stumble and fall this upcoming season as our youngsters experience some growing pains. But we'll be much better off in the long run than we would be if we continued hindering the development of our young players by wheel-chairing out old, decrepit veterans when it's obvious that they are way past their prime.

See now we can have a discussion. I think that people happy with the changes are reacting more to who we lost than who we may pick up down the road. So be it, I know many have wanted to make big changes. I think the future is undecided this year and far from good or bad at this point. I do worry about dumping so many veterans and leaders on the team so fast particularly not knowing who will step up at this point. I also wonder if we are done at this point or they are just waiting for the first round of cuts to sink in before doing more.

I don't at all agree with your comment that the guys we got rid of are old decrepid veterans way past their prime. Most of these guys were in their late 20s or early 30s. Unless we are talking dog years, most of them are relatively young and still productive even in football terms. Even some of the old guys like Moose and Lewis were still productive and were injury free last year. I am not unhappy with some of the cuts and think that getting of Lloyd, Brayton, Moose, Lewis, and Hoover will hurt us. The fact that our castaways are finding other teams pretty quickly should tell us that most other teams think these guys still have enough in the tank to be worth signing them.

So I far from optimistic at this point. But this surely is not a sky is falling post or predicting a 4-12 season. Perhaps I do appreciate veterans more than many on this forum and do believe that experience can often mitigate some athletic decline as a player ages. But I don't believe my stance is unconsidered, out in left field, or undefensible at this point. The fact that guys like Yasinskas agree with me as did Fowler and many others, just convinces me that my viewpoint is in the mainstream at this point. The over-exuberance of many of you seems to be the majority view here. That is a far change from when it used to be the realm of the lunatic fringe.

[Cyberjag]

If Johnson is so good at pass rushing than why did Brayton get more sacks. I suspect that Johnson has less opportunities against the run but as many against the pass.

Louis started one game for us and 5 in career. He has one sack in his career. How exactly can you tell anything about him yet, particularly since he will be coming off IR.

Connors hasn't shown much. Anderson has done a much better job so far when Davis went down. Connor is not very good running with receivers and has little speed backing up. He is much better playing the run. He will likely be in a backup role this year.

We are worse off in many positions and have little depth. I usually agree with you on many things but not this time. The good news is that we have time to get better and improve. But to say we are worse off at one position is drinking more than just Koolaid.

Serve me up a glass them, I need it because I'm about to get a bill from them.

Brayton got one more sack than Johnson in two more games, and in a starting role. He got two fewer passes defended, and they both forced two fumbles, for what it's worth. I like Brayton a lot, but I really think that Johnson is better already, and that Johnson would have been a start next year anyway.

Connor got a lot less playing time than Anderson because he backed up Diggs and Anderson backed up Davis. I don't know where you get that he's not as good as Diggs at running with receivers (did you mean Tight Ends, BTW?), when Diggs was out vs. New England Connor took his place and notched up 8 tackles and a fumble recovery with 3 on special teams. Diggs was back the next week versus Minnesota, but he didn't have a performance like that all year. In addition, Ben Watson only caught the ball three times that day, and one was a long TD that was more on our Free Safety than on our SAM Linebacker.

So for those two positions I honestly think we're in for an upgrade. I would love Brayton as depth, but I think Diggs has never been anything special and won't be missed much.

As far as Kemo, I was skeptical that he would recovery anyway given his size and the type of injury he had. Leonard looked good in his spot against the Eagles and Falcons before going down--neither lit us up on the ground and he proved with that sack that he has something Kemo didn't. While I'm not sure this is an upgrade, I strongly suspect it will prove to be.

Peppers will be missed, there's no positive way to look at that. Lewis, I think, will be missed as well. Our line is going to really be a big question mark, and it certainly doesn't have the promise it did a year ago. But if Peppers was back, I would wager that it would be improved somewhat.

As far as the other positions, Moore is an upgrade over Jake from a physical standpoint. I worry that we'll miss Jake's late game heroics, we'll have to see. We missed them last year, for what it's worth. I don't think Fiametta is an upgrade over Hoover, but I think he can be serviceable and don't see that as a serious loss. Bernadeau is already better than Vincent (in my opinion only).

So yeah, because of the defensive line we're not as good as we were last year. But I think we're in good shape. Even if the line has lost talent it's gained in youthful energy, which Meeks should be able to work with. The offense should be better if for no other reason than the line will be healthy and you can bet the FO will get a real receiver to replace Moose.

We're certainly in as good a shape as New Orleans was this time last year, and we're in arguably better shape than we were coming off the 2008 campaign.

So yeah, we disagree. It's not all bad, and parts are pretty good. And there's no way in hell you can compare this to 2001--just look at the 2002 roster and see how many players were dropped. We've got a ton of talent left.

I'm excited. Pass the koolaid!

[monstercat]

isnt this what we are all saying in one way or another?

Nobody ever said those players sucked, but come on man, besides Pep, none of those guys were anywhere close to being special players.

[panthers55]

Serve me up a glass them, I need it because I'm about to get a bill from them.

Brayton got one more sack than Johnson in two more games, and in a starting role. He got two fewer passes defended, and they both forced two fumbles, for what it's worth. I like Brayton a lot, but I really think that Johnson is better already, and that Johnson would have been a start next year anyway.

Connor got a lot less playing time than Anderson because he backed up Diggs and Anderson backed up Davis. I don't know where you get that he's not as good as Diggs at running with receivers (did you mean Tight Ends, BTW?), when Diggs was out vs. New England Connor took his place and notched up 8 tackles and a fumble recovery with 3 on special teams. Diggs was back the next week versus Minnesota, but he didn't have a performance like that all year. In addition, Ben Watson only caught the ball three times that day, and one was a long TD that was more on our Free Safety than on our SAM Linebacker.

So for those two positions I honestly think we're in for an upgrade. I would love Brayton as depth, but I think Diggs has never been anything special and won't be missed much.

As far as Kemo, I was skeptical that he would recovery anyway given his size and the type of injury he had. Leonard looked good in his spot against the Eagles and Falcons before going down--neither lit us up on the ground and he proved with that sack that he has something Kemo didn't. While I'm not sure this is an upgrade, I strongly suspect it will prove to be.

Peppers will be missed, there's no positive way to look at that. Lewis, I think, will be missed as well. Our line is going to really be a big question mark, and it certainly doesn't have the promise it did a year ago. But if Peppers was back, I would wager that it would be improved somewhat.

As far as the other positions, Moore is an upgrade over Jake from a physical standpoint. I worry that we'll miss Jake's late game heroics, we'll have to see. We missed them last year, for what it's worth. I don't think Fiametta is an upgrade over Hoover, but I think he can be serviceable and don't see that as a serious loss. Bernadeau is already better than Vincent (in my opinion only).

So yeah, because of the defensive line we're not as good as we were last year. But I think we're in good shape. Even if the line has lost talent it's gained in youthful energy, which Meeks should be able to work with. The offense should be better if for no other reason than the line will be healthy and you can bet the FO will get a real receiver to replace Moose.

We're certainly in as good a shape as New Orleans was this time last year, and we're in arguably better shape than we were coming off the 2008 campaign.

So yeah, we disagree. It's not all bad, and parts are pretty good. And there's no way in hell you can compare this to 2001--just look at the 2002 roster and see how many players were dropped. We've got a ton of talent left.

I'm excited. Pass the koolaid!

It would be an interesting study to see if PSL owners are more or less excited than those who don't have a big financial stake in the team. That is because some opinion research has correlated the level of "buy in" a person have to a particular issue is in relationship to the amount of investment they have in the outcome.

In others would PSLs owners have more of a positive feeling about the changes based on owning seat licenses and being obligated to buy tickets because they "have to believe" it will turn out well or they have wasted all this money . Your opening line kind of made me think of that.

As for whether or not we upgraded so far, the reality is it is only speculation at this point. No one knows until games start what will happen. I am looking forward to training camp and the preseason to get a gauge. Until then I will take a wait and see approach. But I clearly do not think that who we have right now is anywhere close to better than last year other than at quarterback. And I have stated who or why not already so I won't waste more time reiterating what I have posted elsewhere. And no I don't see 2001 again, Fox took that roster with a few upgrades and turned it into 7-9 so he is likely to do better than 1-15 no matter who is here.

But color me skeptical until I see reason for more optimism.

[Cyberjag]

It would be an interesting study to see if PSL owners are more or less excited than those who don't have a big financial stake in the team. That is because some opinion research has correlated the level of "buy in" a person have to a particular issue is in relationship to the amount of investment they have in the outcome.

In others would PSLs owners have more of a positive feeling about the changes based on owning seat licenses and being obligated to buy tickets because they "have to believe" it will turn out well or they have wasted all this money . Your opening line kind of made me think of that.

As for whether or not we upgraded so far, the reality is it is only speculation at this point. No one knows until games start what will happen. I am looking forward to training camp and the preseason to get a gauge. Until then I will take a wait and see approach. But I clearly do not think that who we have right now is anywhere close to better than last year. And I have stated who or why not already so I won't waste more time reiterating what I have posted elsewhere. But color me skeptical until I see reason for more optimism.

I'm also a natural optimist, so I would believe even if I didn't own tickets.

And I don't think we're better. But I do think that we're potentially better at every position except on the right side of the defensive line. So if that area performs well, we have a good shot at being better as a team. ESPECIALLY if we stay healthy, which derailed us last year.

And this time of year I always think we're going to stay healthy. I even thought that about Morgan. It's why I don't gamble.