We've picked an ok time to suck ass but we need to embrace a full rebuild and be ready to compete in 3-4 years

[kungfoodude]

17 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

Think it would take a miracle for him to live up to the Mahomes and Brees comparisons but championship game manager is still very attainable. There's an argument to be made that he always has been.

Well, those are also once every 10-15 years or longer.

The truth is you do need another elite QB if you want sustained success.

[3838]

8 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

We also picked a hell of a year to go against the Sheriff riding off into the sunset tour. 

I still get ticked off thinking about it. Refs two feet away, letting the Donkeys defense tee off on Cam all night.

[onmyown]

10 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This year honestly needs to be all about evaluating Bryce. Is he the guy or not. You need an answer by the end of this year. I have a strong inkling to what that answer is gonna be, but Tepper has to GTFO of the way and let the football people make that call.

Can he do what Mahomes did tonight? Can he put a team on his back on the biggest stage and drag them across the finish line? If no you need to keep looking. Because we just saw a really good game manager on a STACKED team come up short because the other team had a dude. It's really that simply. You have a dude or you need to be looking for a dude.

You’re not going to find a Mahomes. That talent has been seen only a handful of time in the history of the sport.

We just need someone competent. Or someone with a ton of potential…you know like Stroud.

[UNCrules2187]

11 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This year honestly needs to be all about evaluating Bryce. Is he the guy or not. You need an answer by the end of this year. I have a strong inkling to what that answer is gonna be, but Tepper has to GTFO of the way and let the football people make that call.

Can he do what Mahomes did tonight? Can he put a team on his back on the biggest stage and drag them across the finish line? If no you need to keep looking. Because we just saw a really good game manager on a STACKED team come up short because the other team had a dude. It's really that simply. You have a dude or you need to be looking for a dude.

I mean while I'd love a Mahomes-level talent at QB, let's not forget that if potentially any one of Greenlaw tearing his Achilles running on to the field, Moody getting an XP blocked, a punt hitting a 49er in the leg, the Chiefs recovering 5 (!) of their 6 (!!!) fumbles in the game go the other way, you could've easily seen Brock Purdy SB winning QB. The 49ers were extremely unlucky last night and still arguably should've won the game.

Edited February 12 by UNCrules2187

[t96]

2 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

I mean while I'd love a Mahomes-level talent at QB, let's not forget that if potentially any one of Greenlaw tearing his Achilles running on to the field, Moody getting an XP blocked, a punt hitting a 49er in the leg, the Chiefs recovering 5 (!) of their 6 (!!!) fumbles in the game, you could've easily seen Brock Purdy SB winning QB. The 49ers were extremely unlucky last night and still arguably should've won the game.

If you want to play the injury game I'm sure the Chiefs would've gladly gone against a healthy Greenlaw if it meant a healthy Thuney and Omenihu.

Chiefs' ST was better all year and is the better unit, those plays aren't lucky, Chiefs earned them.

Also conveniently ignoring things like the ineligible receiver downfield on CMC's TD, horsecollar on Purdy, intentional grounding with a receiving in the vicinity, full bodyweight sack on Mahomes that by the rulebook should've been a penalty.

Chiefs earned the win, 49ers deserved to lose. Luck had nothing to do with it.

[Leaky_Faucet]

Just in my time around the Panthers, this offseason already shows more optimism than in years past for fans. It really appears that David Tepper is taking steps back and will continue to do so as long as his confidence remains in his new 3-headed monster (Morgan, Tilis, Canales).  The firings of Rajack, Fitterer, and Suleiman, which were three fellows buried deep in the owner’s trust a year ago speaks volumes. Dan Morgan’s more traditional talent evaluation system proved more accurate than the different layers of analytics “Frankenstein-ed” together in the front office. The simplicity is also a breath of fresh air in a building where complication and collaboration on repeat has ran rampant and it brings a clear message- they have to start doing the basic things right.

Looking at the state of the franchise now, and the mess that fills BOA stadium, here are a few things I expect to see this offseason:

·         They will prefer to resign Burns at their price but aren’t afraid to trade him for draft capital, and will before they let him walk.

·         Brown and Luvu will get extensions, Chinn does not have a place on EJ Evero’s defense unless he agrees to play Linebacker which is unlikely.

·         Shaq Thompson has probably played his last game- I expect most of the capital to be invested into Corner and DL help. The Panthers will probably “rent” an edge this year should Burns not return.

·         The offense is going to mirror the Seahawks from the last few years more than the Buccaneers from last season. The Panthers are already built for the run, the Buccaneers were not. I expect for the sake of resources you will see a heavy run game mixed in with the PA Pass that is the cornerstone of the Canales’ offense. Think old school ground-n-pound with the crossers and deep outs.

·         I don’t expect a frenzy of activity at WR. Panthers probably add a WR1 in FA, and maybe a mid-level guy in the draft or FA after the draft. The focus will be more about solidifying the OL and getting somebody to compliment Hubbard. Much of the reason for the lack of separation last season was due to scheme not WR ability.

·         There will be veteran QB insurance. While this is likely to be filled by Dalton, I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody else is brought in. First, to push the QB room along in competition and development. Second, should Bryce go down OR if there is no clear progression by midseason and the staff wants to justify their system works with different pieces ...

[amcoolio]

12 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This year honestly needs to be all about evaluating Bryce. Is he the guy or not. You need an answer by the end of this year. I have a strong inkling to what that answer is gonna be, but Tepper has to GTFO of the way and let the football people make that call.

Can he do what Mahomes did tonight? Can he put a team on his back on the biggest stage and drag them across the finish line? If no you need to keep looking. Because we just saw a really good game manager on a STACKED team come up short because the other team had a dude. It's really that simply. You have a dude or you need to be looking for a dude.

3-5 teams have elite QB's. If you keep chasing the elite QB, you are gonna be bad for 30+ years. There just isn't that much QB talent in the world unless the NFL changes the rules to make the position easier.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, amcoolio said:

3-5 teams have elite QB's. If you keep chasing the elite QB, you are gonna be bad for 30+ years. There just isn't that much QB talent in the world unless the NFL changes the rules to make the position easier.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but outside of a few years that's basically been the history of the Panthers.

[mrcompletely11]

11 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Just in my time around the Panthers, this offseason already shows more optimism than in years past for fans. It really appears that David Tepper is taking steps back and will continue to do so as long as his confidence remains in his new 3-headed monster (Morgan, Tilis, Canales).  The firings of Rajack, Fitterer, and Suleiman, which were three fellows buried deep in the owner’s trust a year ago speaks volumes. Dan Morgan’s more traditional talent evaluation system proved more accurate than the different layers of analytics “Frankenstein-ed” together in the front office. The simplicity is also a breath of fresh air in a building where complication and collaboration on repeat has ran rampant and it brings a clear message- they have to start doing the basic things right.

Looking at the state of the franchise now, and the mess that fills BOA stadium, here are a few things I expect to see this offseason:

·         They will prefer to resign Burns at their price but aren’t afraid to trade him for draft capital, and will before they let him walk.

·         Brown and Luvu will get extensions, Chinn does not have a place on EJ Evero’s defense unless he agrees to play Linebacker which is unlikely.

·         Shaq Thompson has probably played his last game- I expect most of the capital to be invested into Corner and DL help. The Panthers will probably “rent” an edge this year should Burns not return.

·         The offense is going to mirror the Seahawks from the last few years more than the Buccaneers from last season. The Panthers are already built for the run, the Buccaneers were not. I expect for the sake of resources you will see a heavy run game mixed in with the PA Pass that is the cornerstone of the Canales’ offense. Think old school ground-n-pound with the crossers and deep outs.

·         I don’t expect a frenzy of activity at WR. Panthers probably add a WR1 in FA, and maybe a mid-level guy in the draft or FA after the draft. The focus will be more about solidifying the OL and getting somebody to compliment Hubbard. Much of the reason for the lack of separation last season was due to scheme not WR ability.

·         There will be veteran QB insurance. While this is likely to be filled by Dalton, I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody else is brought in. First, to push the QB room along in competition and development. Second, should Bryce go down OR if there is no clear progression by midseason and the staff wants to justify their system works with different pieces ...

Maybe I am too pessimistic but I just dont see any way luvu and chinn come back.   We have totally wasted chinn, I mean completely left him by the wayside for some reason, I think someone is going to overpay luvu leaving him no choice

[45catfan]

3 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Just in my time around the Panthers, this offseason already shows more optimism than in years past for fans. It really appears that David Tepper is taking steps back and will continue to do so as long as his confidence remains in his new 3-headed monster (Morgan, Tilis, Canales).  The firings of Rajack, Fitterer, and Suleiman, which were three fellows buried deep in the owner’s trust a year ago speaks volumes. Dan Morgan’s more traditional talent evaluation system proved more accurate than the different layers of analytics “Frankenstein-ed” together in the front office. The simplicity is also a breath of fresh air in a building where complication and collaboration on repeat has ran rampant and it brings a clear message- they have to start doing the basic things right.

Looking at the state of the franchise now, and the mess that fills BOA stadium, here are a few things I expect to see this offseason:

·         They will prefer to resign Burns at their price but aren’t afraid to trade him for draft capital, and will before they let him walk.

·         Brown and Luvu will get extensions, Chinn does not have a place on EJ Evero’s defense unless he agrees to play Linebacker which is unlikely.

·         Shaq Thompson has probably played his last game- I expect most of the capital to be invested into Corner and DL help. The Panthers will probably “rent” an edge this year should Burns not return.

·         The offense is going to mirror the Seahawks from the last few years more than the Buccaneers from last season. The Panthers are already built for the run, the Buccaneers were not. I expect for the sake of resources you will see a heavy run game mixed in with the PA Pass that is the cornerstone of the Canales’ offense. Think old school ground-n-pound with the crossers and deep outs.

·         I don’t expect a frenzy of activity at WR. Panthers probably add a WR1 in FA, and maybe a mid-level guy in the draft or FA after the draft. The focus will be more about solidifying the OL and getting somebody to compliment Hubbard. Much of the reason for the lack of separation last season was due to scheme not WR ability.

·         There will be veteran QB insurance. While this is likely to be filled by Dalton, I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody else is brought in. First, to push the QB room along in competition and development. Second, should Bryce go down OR if there is no clear progression by midseason and the staff wants to justify their system works with different pieces ...

Ahhhh...this so refreshing to learn.  I couldn't agree more on all points.  If these are things emphasized by Morgan, then I already am loving his tenure as GM.

I've been saying the same thing about Burns, Chinn, Luvu, and Brown.  Chinn should take a page out of Thomas Davis' book, if not, that's narrow sighted on his part.  We can't mortgage the future for Burns.  If he agrees to a reasonable contract, great, if not tag and trade.  Sanders is a bust and Hubbard, while improved, is still not a short yardage move-the-pile RB.  Estime and Allen would be great targets in the draft for that role.

Glad to know that we are going back to our roots as a rushing team.  Utilize the strength of our current OL while trying to upgrade it.

I think it would be mistake to have just a 2-man QB room, camp bodies excluded.  Dalton is older and in the last year of his deal.  It would make sense to have a longer term back up to Bryce and if he isn't the answer, the new veteran QB can be a bridge guy for the rookie in 2025 so as not to throw him to the wolves if said rookie QB is not ready to be the day 1 starter.

[amcoolio]

18 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but outside of a few years that's basically been the history of the Panthers.

I agree with you, but unless we luck into a Mahomes, Allen, Burrow level talent, which is very very hard to do, we might as well follow the blueprint of the teams that have won SB's without those elite QB's or at least build a team that is competing every year in the playoffs than have nothing at all.

The huddle thinks that grabbing that elite QB is easy and is frustrated that we haven't done it yet. Its not. Again there are 3-5 elite QB's in the world at any given time and 32 NFL teams.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, amcoolio said:

I agree with you, but unless we luck into a Mahomes, Allen, Burrow level talent, which is very very hard to do, we might as well follow the blueprint of the teams that have won SB's without those elite QB's or at least build a team that is competing every year in the playoffs than have nothing at all.

The huddle thinks that grabbing that elite QB is easy and is frustrated that we haven't done it yet. Its not. Again there are 3-5 elite QB's in the world at any given time and 32 NFL teams.

It's not easy but if you don't have one your chances of winning the SB in today's NFL are slim to none.

[t96]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

Ahhhh...this so refreshing to learn.  I couldn't agree more on all points.  If these are things emphasized by Morgan, then I already am loving his tenure as GM.

I've been saying the same thing about Burns, Chinn, Luvu, and Brown.  Chinn should take a page out of Thomas Davis' book, if not, that's narrow sighted on his part.  We can't mortgage the future for Burns.  If he agrees to a reasonable contract, great, if not tag and trade.  Sanders is a bust and Hubbard, while improved, is still not a short yardage move-the-pile RB.  Estime and Allen would be great targets in the draft for that role.

Glad to know that we are going back to our roots as a rushing team.  Utilize the strength of our current OL while trying to upgrade it.

I think it would be mistake to have just a 2-man QB room, camp bodies excluded.  Dalton is older and in the last year of his deal.  It would make sense to have a longer term back up to Bryce and if he isn't the answer, the new veteran QB can be a bridge guy for the rookie in 2025 so as not to throw him to the wolves if said rookie QB is not ready to be the day 1 starter.

Generally agree but disagree on Chinn. Chinn is a perfect fit for a Kam Chancellor or Jamal Adams strong safety role. Sure he could switch to LBer but it's not a natural move at all like TD who belonged there all along. Chinn belongs at safety, you just need to pair him with a good coverage safety and have the scheme fit his skill set with blitzing, covering TE/RBs in the slot/backfield, etc. The downfall of Chinn here really is criminal. This is a player completely capable of being a perennial All-Pro and we've just completely mismanaged him. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

I think we should build for 2025.  Sign and Trade Burns for 2 #1.  If Horn actually plays well and doesn't get hurt.  Trade him at the deadline for at least one 1st rounder.  Trade down #33 for a 2025 first rounder and maybe a 3rd.  

Draft well with our remaining picks and go from there. 

We could possibly have 4 first rounders to use to get studs at each position.  Also have the possibility to trade up for a QB if Young fails in his sophomore campaign.