The Vick thread....All Vick threads merged here

[Bobby]

A lot of Vick's play depends on his speed. That deteriorates, and he's getting older.

[CatMan72]

One thing Bolton has shown more than once: he's incapable of being the leader of a football team. He can win you games (or could), sometimes many of them, but he's not gonna be the one players can look to as an example of what a player should be. He's not gonna try and motivate when the team is down and feels like it has nothing to play for-everytime he was in that position he was yelling at or blaming his teammates rather than encouraging them. When he's on the field, he's out there to get his. Do I think that some judge telling him that something he thought of as a perfectly acceptable pastime was a no-no and 2 years in a prison has changed how he would operate behind the wheel of an NFL franchise? I sure wouldn't put money (or 3-5 seasons) on it.

He's incapable of being a leader and yet his teammates in Philly gave him their "man of the year" award... hmmmm?

If it's unfair to base his current value on his past accomplishments, isn't it also unfair to base his current value on his past failures or shortcomings?

You can't have it both ways...

[grateflday]

GARBAGE TIME??? GET THE f**k OUTTA HERE!!!! Moore played the Vikings when they had the chance to have homefield advantage throughout the playoffs and played the Giants when it was the game that determined if they went to the playoffs or not. Having said both those things he really kicked ass in both of those games. So to say he played in "garbage time" is utter bullshit my friend.

I agree and wouldnt call the last 5 games "garbage time". My concern is that there is a difference playing when you the QB and the overall team had nothing to lose by losing. I mean sure you are trying to compete and keep your job but there is a difference when there is more pressure.

The jury still has to be out on how Matt Moore will play when its week 1, 2, 3, 4, 5..... and hopefully later in the season when THE Panthers are playing for playoff position. Finally, what kind of QB will he be when the running game is shut down?

I am not saying Vick is the answer nor what the team should do, but people jumping on the Moore bandwagon as the Panther QB of the future is definately premature in my opinion. I do though feel much better going into next season seeing how Moore and the team did respond the last 5 games.

[grateflday]

My point: Moore performed well in games that had no playoff implications for the Panthers. He was not under pressure to win or miss the playoffs... it's a whole different mindset when the team is counting on you as the QB to help them reach the playoffs.

I'm not saying there was no pressure on Moore, there is always some degree of pressure to perform - but the highest degree of pressure is when you're playing to reach the playoffs or to win a playoff game and Moore's spectacular performance last year was not in the context of that kind of pressure.

I have nothing against Moore, I'm the same guy who said in another thread that I thought Moore might be our Tom Brady.... but ask yourself this: are you willing to bet our whole season on Matt Moore and/or Jake Delhomme? I'm not ready to do that yet, if nothing else I would like to see us hedge that bet by bringing in a QB who has reached and won playoff games and Bolton may be one of the cheapest/best options that meets that criteria.

Again, the real point of my OP was that we should not so easily dismiss the idea that Bolton could be a Panther based on what Fox or Hurney might have said a year ago when they had a much higher degree of confidence in Jake.

I probably should have read all the posts before I responded to the same person. I agree and just said basically what you said in my post above.

[cookinwithgas]

Holy cow this is dumb. Those games were not meaningless at all for Moore, his future as a QB in the league depended on his performance. He's the number 1 Free Agent QB this year because of his play and his potential. He showed leadership and toughness last season after some very iffy games in the past that, if repeated, would have made him an undesirable instead.

Vick will not be a Panther. Get it out of your heads.

[slumdogmillionaire]

Michael Vick.

[CatMan72]

Holy cow this is dumb. Those games were not meaningless at all for Moore, his future as a QB in the league depended on his performance. He's the number 1 Free Agent QB this year because of his play and his potential. He showed leadership and toughness last season after some very iffy games in the past that, if repeated, would have made him an undesirable instead.

Bolton will not be a Panther. Get it out of your heads.

Who said the games Moore played were meaningless to him?

Who said we should bring in Vick and immediately anoint him as the starting QB?

Who said Vick was better than Moore?

[X-Clown]

Who said the games Moore played were meaningless to him?

Who said we should bring in Bolton and immediately anoint him as the starting QB?

Who said Bolton was better than Moore?

King Taharqa for one

[Rhys]

I think it's funny that people feel so certain about the idea that the Panthers would never associate themselves with Bolton...

Hah, you really love this Vick topic don't you? You posted at doubletrouble3428.com about this as well.

I'm personally against it because I don't think he adds much to the team, he's aging, our running game is already solid as the rock of Gibraltar, he brings a lot of negative attention to our team, and we have a young potentially franchise-caliber QB waiting in the wings. We don't need to waste our time with someone like Vick.

I'll admit, I am really disturbed knowing that not only did he fight dogs, but the type of brutality involved in running the kind of operation he did really makes me sick. He hung and drowned dogs who lost fights among other pretty unsavory things.

I just flat out DO NOT WANT him representing the Panthers, and we don;'t need him anyways.

On top of all of this, I much prefer finding our own guys and drafting talent rather than bringing in big names to 'help' us win.

[CatMan72]

King Taharqa for one

I certainly didn't... maybe folks need to go back and read my OP a little more carefully before calling it dumb and countering with points I never made.

[Jbro]

Why is nobody talking about Vick?

[Rhys]

Talking about V1ck is too taboo, that's why.

[CatMan72]

Hah, you really love this Bolton topic don't you? You posted at doubletrouble3428.com about this as well.

I'm personally against it because I don't think he adds much to the team, he's aging, our running game is already solid as the rock of Gibraltar, he brings a lot of negative attention to our team, and we have a young potentially franchise-caliber QB waiting in the wings. We don't need to waste our time with someone like Bolton.

I'll admit, I am really disturbed knowing that not only did he fight dogs, but the type of brutality involved in running the kind of operation he did really makes me sick. He hung and drowned dogs who lost fights among other pretty unsavory things.

I just flat out DO NOT WANT him representing the Panthers, and we don;'t need him anyways.

On top of all of this, I much prefer finding our own guys and drafting talent rather than bringing in big names to 'help' us win.

I did post a question over on doubletrouble3428.com because I was curious as to what DWill and JStew thought about the prospect of Vick being a Panther.

I think you raise some valid concerns here, but I think it's too early to conclude that Moore is our QB of the future based on what he has accomplished so far.

[Rhys]

I'm interested to see what DT says as well. I'm not sure DeAngelo will like the idea simply because he supports the QB's currently on our roster.

I'm not concluding that Moore IS our QB of the future, I'm just saying that he could potentially become that.

V1ck, however, does not have that potential.