Offensive Tackle: What to do?

[Lemory]

Id like to see them sign Graham Glasgow in FA and place him next to Ickey. Also need to upgrade from Bozeman by any means necessary which is doable with the C depth in the draft.

[SmokinwithWilly]

We're partially in the position we're in because Rhule refused to play BC at LT when it was obvious to the rest of us he was better than any LT we had on the roster at time. The last few games he started, we didn't hear his name, which is a good thing. 

But since we didn't, we drafted Icky and moved BC to guard which is not his natural position. 

To fix it, BC and Icky need to compete for LT with a coach focused on coaching instead of being Diaper Dave's locker room spy. BC has more lateral mobility then Icky right now, but that can be worked on by Icky with private coaching if he wants to get better. 

Moton needs to be restructured and that money used to bolster the line. C and RG are theoretically there if we get some competent game planning but I still want to get some big uglies in the 2nd and 3rd if we can trade back a couple spaces and acquire an extra pick or 2. 

Our depth makes me throw up a little in my mouth. 

[grimesgoat]

I would do the following...

Trade Burns for a late 1st.  Draft WR.  Get an Edge in the top of the 2nd. Re-sign Luvu and extend Brown.

Then fix the OL....

Switch Icky and Christiansen.  Christensen is built for LT.  Icky is built for G. Stop fighting it.

Draft a C/G at the top of the 3rd.  Give him experience at RG this year, then move him to C next year.

Draft a TE at the top of the 4th.

Re-work Moton's deal as usual to clear space but don't spend it.  Roll it over until we are better and we have enough players worth spending it on.

 

 

[WUnderhill]

45 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

There's too much to do on the defensive side of the ball in free agency for expensive competition along the OL.  We need a starting WR as well and those guys are not cheap.

We had I think 5 first round picks on defense this past year, 3 top 10. That side of the ball can get fugged. We had 2 first round picks on offense. We have over invested in defense relative to offense for a long time. We have to know this year whether Bryce is going to be the guy moving forward and that starts with protecting the QB. WR and OL should be top priority in FA. If the offense is competent, the games become watchable again.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

Much of our cap resources are going to be needed to retain or sign guys on the defensive side of the ball.  That and a stud WR.  Reason being why we need to stay away from OL in FA.  If a guy is there in the 4th or 5th round that's a steal, especially an interior player, then go for it.

Not to sound repetitive, but we have already invested in this OL--Icky is a first round pick, BC a third, Bozemen and Corbett signed as free agents, and Moton--that is $57m in cap room for this season.  As stated, they need a new coach, new system (the play action approach vs. shotgun is interesting--it deserves its own thread.) and healing.  I agree 100%.  Some depth would be nice, but as you pointed out, we have that under contract too--just need to develop it.  I really think Campen was a waste of time.

[MHS831]

37 minutes ago, Lemory said:

Id like to see them sign Graham Glasgow in FA and place him next to Ickey. Also need to upgrade from Bozeman by any means necessary which is doable with the C depth in the draft.

I have never seen a C draft this good.  Ever.  I think Bozeman was flanked by two confused guards and A gap was attacked all year long.  I am not sure that he is as bad as he looked, but yeah, he looked bad at times.

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

There's too much to do on the defensive side of the ball in free agency for expensive competition along the OL.  We need a starting WR as well and those guys are not cheap.

They should not be handing out franchise money to anyone on defense other the Brown. That money needs to add as many quality starts as possible on offense. Draft offense and defense. 

[Samppson]

We are in no position to get rid of our best and most dependable guy on the line in Moton. Hes rock solid and never misses games. 30m is a huge cap number, so Id imagine they find a way to re-work the deal so both sides are happy. That is literally what Tillis is supposedly great at.

Edited January 29 by Samppson

[CRA]

1 hour ago, grimesgoat said:

I would do the following...

Trade Burns for a late 1st.  Draft WR.  Get an Edge in the top of the 2nd. Re-sign Luvu and extend Brown.

Then fix the OL....

Switch Icky and Christiansen.  Christensen is built for LT.  Icky is built for G. Stop fighting it.

Draft a C/G at the top of the 3rd.  Give him experience at RG this year, then move him to C next year.

Draft a TE at the top of the 4th.

Re-work Moton's deal as usual to clear space but don't spend it.  Roll it over until we are better and we have enough players worth spending it on.

 

 

I got no issue with this in theory...

but I think Burns played himself out of that wish coming true.  You not only have to give up a first for him....but then have to pay him on top of that.  I think too many teams would rather just spend that 1st rounder on a DE themselves for the cheap contract and hopes of getting a more well rounded edge player. 

[MHS831]

Personally, I think you should draft an OL every year depending on the depth of the draft at the position.  However, when you trade away your picks, it becomes more about need.

https://themessenger.com/sports/2024-nfl-draft-strongest-weakest-position-groups

According to this source, this is a very good draft at QB, WR (9 in the top 50; 13 in the top 100), CB (no elite players, but a lot of depth--we could use one. 8 in the top 50 players; 13 in the top 100), OT (seven with top 50 grades but it drops off after that) and IOL (There are 8 solid players expected to go between picks 51 and 100). 

Terrible draft for TE, RB, Edge (good on day 1, depth is weak), S (depth) and DT (on days 2 and 3 you can find the penetrating 3 techniques, however.)

What this means: 

We will probably take a WR at #33 because the need and value will be there.  

We will probably take a CB (Horn oft injured, Jackson too.  Frankly, if teams threw on us more, our CBs would have been exposed)

I am guessing that we draft an interior offensive lineman based on our current situation.  (If Moton or Ekwonu is injured, BC would move from G to T.  So we need a G/C type more than at T type at this time, imo.)

At TE, we have Hurst, Tremble, and (from IR) RIcci, who flashed as an effective receiving TE in the past.  I do not see why Tremble is not our blocking TE, and he flashed this season as well.  We simply do not use the TEs effectively.  They can be used better to help with speed rushers and they can run more than curls and outs--they need to drag across the middle to keep the ILBs out of Bryce's face. The way the TEs were used pisses me off.  I don't want to talk about it).  Maybe we go after Noah Fant?  He would be a relatively cheap free agent with a connection to GM and coach here.  (I would guess under $8m?)

X(avier) marks the Spot:  A WR I really like the Xaviers.  Xavier Worthy for the play-action pass offense, although he is a bit slight.  He is an all-around WR who can give formation flexibility. Xavier Legette is large and fast--and he will be there on day 2.

YAC guy: (based on his history of open field running--think WR screens, reverses, etc.) is Western Kentucky's   Malachi Corley, a player who could be there around pick 101. 

Catch Radius (Mike Evans type) guy:  While not as good as Evans, Johnny Wilson is 6-7 and is projected to run under 4.5.  He could be there at pick 101.  Who needs an additional TE with Wilson on the field.

 

Tangent Finis

 

[MHS831]

58 minutes ago, Samppson said:

We are in no position to get rid of our best and most dependable guy on the line in Moton. Hes rock solid and never misses games. 30m is a huge cap number, so Id imagine they find a way to re-work the deal so both sides are happy. That is literally what Tillis is supposedly great at.

I get your point, and I agree that a restructure is the way to go.  If not, however, while Moton might be our best OL, is he worth $30m?  I do not think that you are suggesting that he is, so I simply use this post to make a comparison--and it is not to argue with you:

1. Keep Moton and $30m contract at RT.  Moton is probably a 7.5 on a scale of RTs from 1-10.

2.  Move BC there, save $17m.  Christensen would probably be a 5.5 to 6 at RT, in my estimation.  Spend $12 million signing TE Fant, spend $5m on a pass-catching RB.

[Martin]

Here is my favorite analytics cheat from Josh Norris for drafting o-linemen (look away Mr Scot, it’s analytics):
 

[Khaki Lackey]

3 hours ago, t96 said:

I'm not giving up on Ickey at LT, need to scheme around his deficiencies while he develops though.

Yeah, he's young and he's had a different coach and scheme each of the last three years. While having garbage guard play next to him the majority of the time.

Edited January 29 by Khaki Lackey

[Stuart Smith]

4 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Personally, i think this offensive line will not be as bad this year, even if they do nothing.  However, there are some really interesting questions/points of discussion.  The purpose here is not to force my opinion, but to start a dialogue.   Assume that Bryce will be the QB (because this is the real world and it is unlikely that we move on from Bryce this early.  We hired a QB savant for a reason.)

Yet we have a situation.  Moton is solid but not spectacular, and he is slated to earn $29.75m in 2024 and again in 2025.  He is 30.  Something, in my opinion, needs to be done about this.  stay tuned.

Ekwonu has not been very good at LT for two seasons.  His coach is a foul-mouthed, football-kissing (with tongue, I heard), Tepper snitch whose players demonstrated little in the areas of growth, proper technique, preparation, and self-discipline (Penalties).  Is it fair to kick Icky inside now, or should we hire a coach who works on his technique?  He has the tools.  His lack of preparation led to false starts, holding penalties, and sacks.  He has upside, so do you kick him inside?

Christensen is a stud athlete, but those skills are not really utilized here.  Just a reminder from his pre-draft workouts:

• His 10-foot-4-inch broad jump was eye-popping, and a sign of the kind of explosive ability.

•  a 34-inch vertical leap
• a 4.89 second 40-yard dash. 

• To put those numbers into context, his 40 time would have been the second-fastest among offensive linemen at the 2020 Scouting Combine (behind only Buccaneers first-round pick Tristan Wirfs' 4.85). The broad jump mark would have been best among blockers; the vertical jump, third. 

• Christensen also had 30 repetitions of the 225-pound bench press (which would have been fifth-most at last year's Combine), and his times in the short-shuttle and three-cone drill would have been second best among offensive linemen.

Personally, I do not see him as a guard, and his numbers support this.  But how do you have this kind of athlete and get nothing from him?  That is what coaches do.  I realize that BC was injured this season, but he was kicked around and not provided a position as a rookie and he had Campen as his coach last year.  What a waste.

Here are my thoughts, and this is to suggest there will be some form of change.  This takes into account Moton's crippling cap figure, Ickey's rawness, and BC's misuse--all opinions that can be debated, but I think we might agree that this is common ground.

Some options that come to mind:

1. Switch BC and Ickey.  If you do that, you do the same thing to Ickey that you did to BC.  However, Ickey might be a stud G--I just wish he had been developed.  Most experts agree that Ekwonu has the size, strength, and skill set to be a strong LT for another decade.  BC's upside at LT is probably average.  Ickey's upside at G is probably elite.

2. Draft a LG and make BC a reserve swing OT.  

3.  Cut Moton (post June 1 saves around half the $$) and move BC to RT.   Draft a T with pick 33 or 65

4.  Waive Moton (not sure if anyone takes that contract)  Draft a T w/ pick 33 or 65

5.  Trade Moton (again, not sure about the cap if we do)  Draft a T w/ pick 33 or 65

6.  Restructure Moton, paying him until he is 35--not too old for an OL.

7.  Leave it the way it is.  BC was not developed as a LG, maybe he will be now. 

I think this needs to be decided before free agency and the draft. 

So if you look at the OL as it stands, you have an investment of nearly $57m for five offensive linemen.  That is nearly 1/4 of the entire cap ($240m) for 2024.  The OL has potential, but has (my opinion) not been developed since Campen arrived.

• LT: Ekwonu  ($7,500,000 salary cap figure for 2024)
• LG: Christensen  ($1,650,000 salary cap figure for 2024)
• C;  Bozeman  ($7,640,000 salary cap figure for 2024)
• RG: Corbett  ($10,100 salary cap figure for 2024)
• RT:  Moton  ($29,750,000 salary cap figure for 2024)

The depth?  I see only Cade Mays as a player with hope to become a dependable backup.

These are the kinds of posts I like during the off season.  It is long, thereby filtering out the crowd who want to bitch and moan without data or prethought. 

 

What say you, realistically?  Remember, we need 2 WRs, a TE, maybe a pass-catching RB, etc.  We do not have a first rounder and our cap space is limited if you think about Burns, Brown, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Moton has not missed a game in several years. He has proven to be one of the most dependable players through all the adversity. He is not spectacular, agreed. We need to find a way to keep him if it means restructure.