Not being a big player in free agency? JESUS CHRIST DIE JERRY RICHARDSON YOU BASTARD

[X-Clown]

Because facts don't appeal to the more emotional types

[Fiz]

Why does there seem to be a feeling that showing that a risky proposition is sometimes successful makes that proposition less risky?

they don't teach logic or reason in schools anymore.

[Montsta]

Is that your mouth with a soul patch Fiz?

[Matt Foley]

hartwig, kemo, carr, lucas, wahle, and keyshawn were all arguably the biggest names available at their positions that free agency year.

Keyshawn was arguably a big name signing, but he was well past his prime at that point. And Carr was signed as a backup. Wahle and Lucas may have been the biggest available names, but they had never been to the Pro Bowl. When Kemo was signed I don't remember any hoopla.

The signing of Wahle and Lucas together were the only time I remember Marty and Co. "getting in at this end of the pool," as he said at the time. And I agree with you, those signings may have given the appearanace of a payoff when the team went to the NFCC in 05, but they were not successes overall. In fact, it's my belief they tore at the fabric of a unique locker room where Brad Hoover and Nick Goings were well respected for what they did without complaint or holdout. Lucas, especially, didn't win over many teammates because he wouldn't play hurt.

I really liked your opening post, thought it was very well written and entertaining, but my first thought was "well, how many teams ARE successful when they constantly go after the biggest available names"? Then I thought of the Redskins and their conga line of busts. The 49ers and Cowboys used to be good at it...before the salary cap.

[Fiz]

And Carr was signed as a backup.

I really don't think he was, and I wrote at length about it in 2007. He was signed with an eye towards the future, which is why they gave him the big contract they did.

Wahle and Lucas may have been the biggest available names, but they had never been to the Pro Bowl.

pro bowls mean nothing.

see: Vilma, Jonathan

When Kemo was signed I don't remember any hoopla.

you misremember. He was a huge deal, and was evidence of obvious panther tampering since they signed him like twenty minutes into free agency.

The 49ers and Cowboys used to be good at it...before the salary cap.

the cowboys are still actually pretty good at it.

[X-Clown]

I don't remember reading the line originally about darude, glow sticks, and the flicking on and off of lights when this was first posted. That just about made me spit drink all over my monitor at work. Thanks Fiz.

[Sandy Claws]

I really don't think he was, and I wrote at length about it in 2007. He was signed with an eye towards the future, which is why they gave him the big contract they did.

A 2 year contract hardly is an eye to the future. It's a try-out year and a renegotiation year if the try-out is successful. In Carr's case with the Panthers, he failed the try-out. And it wasn't a big contract either.

pro bowls mean nothing.

see: Vilma, Jonathan

I don't understand your point on this one. Vilma had been to the pro-bowl before the Saints signed him. Wahle and Lucas had not. Lucas never did.

you misremember. He was a huge deal, and was evidence of obvious panther tampering since they signed him like twenty minutes into free agency.

In 2003, the Panther gave Jenkins 31 million plus for a 5 year extension. # years later a five year deal worth 24 million for Kemo isn't "huge". And on your tampering claim, 2006 was the year that free agency was delayed twice, once with less than an hour prior to the scheduled start. Players were literally in the air traveling for workouts and interviews when the changes were made. Every team was involved. Te 20 minutes into free agency that you point to was actually about a week after the original scheduled start.

[Fiz]

A 2 year contract hardly is an eye to the future. It's a try-out year and a renegotiation year if the try-out is successful.

yeah that's actually the definition of an eye to the future. a try out. meaning you'd play in the future.

In Carr's case with the Panthers, he failed the try-out. And it wasn't a big contract either.

yeah actually it was the biggest contract ever given to someone being brought in to backup a starter but dont let the facts get in the way of a good story, unless you think 6.2 mil over 2 plus 2mil of incentives isn't big for David Carr.

I don't understand your point on this one. Vilma had been to the pro-bowl before the Saints signed him. Wahle and Lucas had not. Lucas never did.

the point is that the only thing arguing pro bowl births are good for is a means to identify dipshits whose points don't deserve consideration. they're stupid as hell to talk about because there's no way to objectively compare players and a popularity contest is the lowest turd in the poo barrel.

In 2003, the Panther gave Jenkins 31 million plus for a 5 year extension. # years later a five year deal worth 24 million for Kemo isn't "huge".

what the fug does that have to do with what they did in the market 3 years later?

which defensive tackle got a bigger deal in 2006?

[Matt Foley]

LOL. I think Fiz would rather argue with someone and win than have sex with a supermodel.

[Sandy Claws]

yeah that's actually the definition of an eye to the future. a try out. meaning you'd play in the future.

Really? I googled it and couldn't find any of that. If they truly were looking to the future, you'd hsve thought they would have locked him up while relatively inexpensive.

yeah actually it was the biggest contract ever given to someone being brought in to backup a starter but dont let the facts get in the way of a good story, unless you think 6.2 mil over 2 plus 2mil of incentives isn't big for David Carr.

You seem to forget that the Bucs (Gruden) was collecting QBs that year. They had Sims under contract costing more than we paid Carr, traded for Plummer though he refused to play and signed Garcia for 5 mill per year. At least 2 of those guys are sitting at costs higher than what you call the "biggest contract ever given to someone being brought in to backup a starter". That cut the supply and along with other teams in need of backups, drove the cost up.

the point is that the only thing arguing pro bowl births are good for is a means to identify dipshits whose points don't deserve consideration. they're stupid as hell to talk about because there's no way to objectively compare players and a popularity contest is the lowest turd in the poo barrel.

Then you really don't have a point, you have an opinion. Your opinion is that the pro-bowl is a popularity contest. Owners, Players and agents view it differently otherwise, there would not be 7 figure bonuses tied to it.

what the f**k does that have to do with what they did in the market 3 years later?

which defensive tackle got a bigger deal in 2006?

Are you seriously stating that any of those 290# pass rushing DTs could fill the role of the run plugger we wanted in the middle? That supply was shorter than tthe QBs. We paid for what we wanted.

[Sandy Claws]

LOL. I think Fiz would rather argue with someone and win than have sex with a supermodel.

But he can't win

[Matt Foley]

But he can't win

Not against you, no. LOL

[Sandy Claws]

Not against you, no. LOL

This thread will be

EPIC

[Fiz]

You seem to forget that the Bucs (Gruden) was collecting QBs that year. They had Sims under contract costing more than we paid Carr, traded for Plummer though he refused to play and signed Garcia for 5 mill per year. At least 2 of those guys are sitting at costs higher than what you call the "biggest contract ever given to someone being brought in to backup a starter". That cut the supply and along with other teams in need of backups, drove the cost up.

yeah 67 year old jeff garcia, chris simms on his rookie contract, and jake plummer refusing to play really drove up the cost of quarterbacks. which quarterback was the starter when they brought in garcia?

besides, gruden is an absolute lunatic about his quarterbacks, and garcia was brought in to at least compete.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786694

So the Bucs, convinced that they could not resurrect the deal for Plummer and still seeking a veteran quarterback to compete with Chris Simms for the starting job, turned their attentions to Garcia.

Carr was brought in with the intention of rehabilitating him.

Then you really don't have a point, you have an opinion. Your opinion is that the pro-bowl is a popularity contest. Owners, Players and agents view it differently otherwise, there would not be 7 figure bonuses tied to it.

lol oh there's money attached to it excuse me.

Endorsements, the true way to judge a players' excellence

Are you seriously stating that any of those 290# pass rushing DTs could fill the role of the run plugger we wanted in the middle?

well considering they pulled one off the street in 2009, yeah I do.

That supply was shorter than tthe QBs. We paid for what we wanted.

lol keep trying to apply your university of phoenix online econ 101 to football it's hysterical.