Kaye on what Morgan needs to do now

[Waldo]

32 minutes ago, BrianS said:

To be fair, Hurney was an excellent talent evaluator . . . . in the first round.

He tried to draft Clausen in the first but couldn't find a trade partner...

Most of those good 1st round picks came from coaches and such in the first, those picks they debated and stumped amongst themselves. He just saved the picks he wanted to make until the 2nd pick which is why so few of those worked out. 

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, Waldo said:

He tried to draft Clausen in the first but couldn't find a trade partner...

Most of those good 1st round picks came from coaches and such in the first, those picks they debated and stumped amongst themselves. He just saved the picks he wanted to make until the 2nd pick which is why so few of those worked out. 

I think they largely did okay at OL and LB under Marty outside the first.  It was sort of positional IMO.  The real killer was Marty could never add skill talent in the pass game.  Never once hit on a steal of any kind there. 

[Buckets]

i mean hurney's draft track record is a billion times better than fitterer/morgan 

[WhoKnows]

19 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think they largely did okay at OL and LB under Marty outside the first.  It was sort of positional IMO.  The real killer was Marty could never add skill talent in the pass game.  Never once hit on a steal of any kind there. 

He had some great picks but man, it’s not as hard if you continue to have top 10 picks. Your field is so narrowed down. His problem was always that he fell in love and didn’t care who dropped or if he had to reach. He, also like Fitt, never drafted for BPA/value/strengths of the draft so the reaches were always worse, like Fitt, as they both missed much better players at other positions. 

[Waldo]

8 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think they largely did okay at OL and LB under Marty outside the first.  It was sort of positional IMO.  The real killer was Marty could never add skill talent in the pass game.  Never once hit on a steal of any kind there. 

No he didn't hit on his steals lol. Kalil and Gross were great but the others were all over the place on the oline, even if Otah is lumped with those 2. He drafted Mathis but changed schemes in his rookie preseason (long time ago but I think that's when they pulled the plug) because it was very poorly done and basically obsoleted a good lineman for his term here of 3 years where he went off to become a first team pro-bowler. LBers were his best work so I agree on that. He was always chasing that one thing that he thought would make them contenders every year. His contracts were a big issue also. The Peppers fiasco. The 2010 and lockout missfire. 2.0 took a team that went to 4 out of 5 years in the playoffs at the preseason that was an 11-5 team and then built the beginning of the no win Panthers they are today. He gave Tepper the thumbs up on Rhule. That's just what I can remember but I feel there is a lot more to add. 

[bandu]

5 hours ago, Ricky Prickles said:

I hope the reason Tepper promoted Morgan was not because he will go along with whatever Tepper says and just agree with him. In my ideal world Tepper promoted Morgan to tell him to shut the hell up when Tepper is about to make a dumb move.

well that would be an awful lot of shut the hell ups...just saying

[TN05]

44 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

He had some great picks but man, it’s not as hard if you continue to have top 10 picks. Your field is so narrowed down. His problem was always that he fell in love and didn’t care who dropped or if he had to reach. He, also like Fitt, never drafted for BPA/value/strengths of the draft so the reaches were always worse, like Fitt, as they both missed much better players at other positions. 

We didn't perpetually have top-ten picks, and it's not actually easy to hit on players in the top ten.

Hurney picks
2002 - #2 overall, Peppers
2003 - #8 overall, Jordan Gross
2004 - #31 overall, Chris Gamble
2005 - #14, Thomas Davis
2006 - #27 overall, DeAngelo Williams
2007 - #25 overall, Jon Beason
2008 - #13 overall, Jonathan Stewart, #19 overall, Jeff Otah
2011 - #1 overall, Cam Newton
2012 - #8 overall, Luke Kuechly

As you can see, Hurney drafted in the top ten only four times. One of those (2002) was not his fault. The other three arguably were (although that 2002 team being 7-9 is way better than most 1-15 followups). On three of those, Marty Hurney picked Hall of Fame-caliber players, and the other was one of the best tackles in the league up until he retired. That is insane. There is no other GM I can think of with that track record.

What's more impressive is what Hurney did outside the top 10. Gamble is the most underrated cornerback in NFL history - solid lockdown guy for a firm decade. Beason was by far the best MLB in the league for three years until an injury. Williams was a top-tier back. And his mid-rounders? Also all great. Davis single-handedly solved Michael Vick. Core member of the 2015 team. Stewart was also a core member of that team. Otah was a top-five lineman for the two seasons he was healthy in. That's the worst-case Hurney first-rounder - a guy who only gave two Pro Bowl-caliber seasons. We could pretty much bet every single year that our #1 pick would be an immediate impact player at minimum and a core franchise guy for a decade to come, in all likelihood.

Hurney's drafts were, quite literally, the core of two separate Super Bowl rosters. We've not had anything like it since.

Also, I feel like people drastically overestimate how "bad" the Panthers were. From 2000 to 2018 we only finished with less than 7 wins twice - 2001 and 2010. Over that time period our win percentage was comparatively high. The problem was a lack of consistent success (two years of which - 2004 and 2007 - were entirely due to injuries). Now we are truly a bottom-feeding team

Edited January 23 by TN05

[TN05]

29 minutes ago, Waldo said:

 2.0 took a team that went to 4 out of 5 years in the playoffs at the preseason that was an 11-5 team and then built the beginning of the no win Panthers they are today. He gave Tepper the thumbs up on Rhule. That's just what I can remember but I feel there is a lot more to add. 

2.0 Hurney drafted DJ Moore, Brian Burns, Jeremy Chinn, and Derrick Brown. Aka the only players on this roster over the last few years to even in conversation as top ten league talents. Our talent evaluation and drafts have sucked since.

Most of the biggest holes we had post-Gettleman were self-inflicted wounds he caused. Cutting all our offensive lineman in 2014 and never fixing it. Terrible receiving core because we cut Steve Smith. Cutting Josh Norman because his agent was rude. Stuff like that. Hurney wasn't great, but the root of all this is Gettleman.

Edited January 23 by TN05

[CRA]

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

He had some great picks but man, it’s not as hard if you continue to have top 10 picks. Your field is so narrowed down. His problem was always that he fell in love and didn’t care who dropped or if he had to reach. He, also like Fitt, never drafted for BPA/value/strengths of the draft so the reaches were always worse, like Fitt, as they both missed much better players at other positions. 

Bust rate is pretty high at the top too though,  plenty of teams have had top picks and some poorly with them. 

He gets an A+ in the first round. 

He probably gets an A overall on the OL too.  He hit more often than not on the OL outside of the first when he pulled the trigger. 

That alone IMO makes Marty decent vs his peers.  Not good.   But we shouldn’t pretend he and someone like Fitterer are similar 

[Waldo]

10 minutes ago, TN05 said:

2.0 Hurney drafted DJ Moore, Brian Burns, Jeremy Chinn, and Derrick Brown. Aka the only players on this roster over the last few years to even in conversation as top ten league talents. Our talent evaluation and drafts have sucked since.

Most of the biggest holes we had post-Gettleman were self-inflicted wounds he caused. Cutting all our offensive lineman in 2014 and never fixing it. Terrible receiving core because we cut Steve Smith. Cutting Josh Norman because his agent was rude. Stuff like that. Hurney wasn't great, but the root of all this is Gettleman.

This team has never had a good GM. Yes Hurney hit on those guys and still built losing teams. As a GM the record of the Panthers under him was 104-121. I never proped up Gettleman in this so not sure why you are on that kick. They all stink regardless of some of their positives. Gettleman drafted CMC and he was still a chode. Looking like yall have some selective memories on Hurney from the current trauma. 

[onmyown]

Hurney’s bloated contracts paying for the past and his god awful ability to fill holes with vets/FAs made him a terrible GM. Basically the opposite of Gettle who couldn’t draft but had an eye for filling holes with vets.

Also his hometown hero obsession.

Don’t forget trying to trade into the first for Little lol

[Ricky Prickles]

4 hours ago, bandu said:

well that would be an awful lot of shut the hell ups...just saying

He would probably spend his entire day each day just telling daddy Tepp to shut the hell up.

[PghPanther]

Dan in his first meeting as the new GM with big brain Tepper.........   

 

[SetfreexX]

19 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Hell, Tepper thought Marty Hurney was a great talent evaluator.

Big reason why I don't trust his judgment.

He was in the first...better than Getts, and Fitt....