Jeff Howe swaps Young and Stroud

[Day1PanthersFan]

I think its best for Panther fans to forget that we ever had an oppertunity to get Stroud 

Only pain will you find in asking what if 

 

[GhostOfDocAnderson]

9 hours ago, top dawg said:

Pre-rankings by PFF or anyone else don't mean a thing, and never have.

It means a lot in the context of rebuking revisionist history. Bryce apologists are fond of declaring that Stroud walked into a better situation in Houston when virtually nobody thought that before the season began. Sorry to break it to those folks, but Stroud is the key to creating a better situation in Houston. He took charge of his own fate and excelled and in the process elevated all those around him. That's what a leader does, and make no mistake about it, Stroud is a leader.

Meanwhile, in Charlotte, our super processor with an elastic arm and surrounded by demonstrably better pieces, not only couldn't elevate those around him but arguably has dragged them down to his level. Bryce ain't some blameless victim here. He's the QB of the panthers, not a hapless bystander. His active participation has been a detriment to the team's performance.

Bryce the opposite of Stroud. We not only passed on Stroud for Bryce, but we sold the farm to draft him. This is the reality we live in. No amount of revisionist history and excuse making will change that or make it more palatable. 

[ForJimmy]

9 minutes ago, GhostOfDocAnderson said:

It means a lot in the context of rebuking revisionist history. Bryce apologists are fond of declaring that Stroud walked into a better situation in Houston when virtually nobody thought that before the season began. Sorry to break it to those folks, but Stroud is the key to creating a better situation in Houston. He took charge of his own fate and excelled and in the process elevated all those around him. That's what a leader does, and make no mistake about it, Stroud is a leader.

Meanwhile, in Charlotte, our super processor with an elastic arm and surrounded by demonstrably better pieces, not only couldn't elevate those around him but arguably has dragged them down to his level. Bryce ain't some blameless victim here. He's the QB of the panthers, not a hapless bystander. His active participation has been a detriment to the team's performance.

Bryce the opposite of Stroud. We not only passed on Stroud for Bryce, but we sold the farm to draft him. This is the reality we live in. No amount of revisionist history and excuse making will change that or make it more palatable. 

After seeing the product on the field it’s pretty obvious Houston is the better situation. It’s why Slowik is getting HC interviews and Reich is unemployed. People are confusing the whole Stroud is in a better situation in Houston with people thinking Young is the better player. Stroud is the better QB AND Houston is the better organization for either QB to play in. Both things are true and I’m not sure why anyone wants to argue either of these things. 

[pantherj]

Obviously CJ is better than Young. Its not even close, but Young is in a terrible situation here. We're the worst team in the NFL by far, and he's stuck here. Young's ceiling is an ordinary game manager who is barely holding the starting spot, but what we're seeing is Young on a nightmare bad team, so he looks feeble and pathetic.

Edited January 20 by pantherj

[top dawg]

25 minutes ago, GhostOfDocAnderson said:

It means a lot in the context of rebuking revisionist history. Bryce apologists are fond of declaring that Stroud walked into a better situation in Houston when virtually nobody thought that before the season began. Sorry to break it to those folks, but Stroud is the key to creating a better situation in Houston. He took charge of his own fate and excelled and in the process elevated all those around him. That's what a leader does, and make no mistake about it, Stroud is a leader.

Meanwhile, in Charlotte, our super processor with an elastic arm and surrounded by demonstrably better pieces, not only couldn't elevate those around him but arguably has dragged them down to his level. Bryce ain't some blameless victim here. He's the QB of the panthers, not a hapless bystander. His active participation has been a detriment to the team's performance.

Bryce the opposite of Stroud. We not only passed on Stroud for Bryce, but we sold the farm to draft him. This is the reality we live in. No amount of revisionist history and excuse making will change that or make it more palatable. 

I hear you, but I only partly agree. Many things that I read before the season began (2023 & 2022) said that Nico Collins had the talent and was due for a breakout. Honestly, he was rated similarly to Mingo before they came out, but he had a couple of years of flashes as a pro. 

I also recall people lauding Tank Dell when I was doing research. Now, of course we had an aging Thielen, a potential underrated star in Chark with a injury history, but it's not like Robert Woods hadn't played at an unexpectedly high level at a point in his career, plus the Texans had John Metchie who isn't without talent himself, though coming off a serious disease. Dalton Schultz, at least in my mind, was a decidedly better immediate and long term prospect than Hurst. Their RBs were supposed to be much better than ours also.

I guess what I'm saying is that the skill positions were more like a push before the season began, with some unknowns. It turns out that the Texans were better. Stroud had something to do with it, but it wasn't all him. Collins is simply a talented receiver who was going to break out in this third year if he had a QB that could play. Dell was an unknown, but he lived up to what some of his fans thought he could be (before he broke his leg). I think that Stroud would've made Mingo look better, and possibly given Chark more of an opportunity to shine, but there was no Nico Collins breakout candidate on our roster, and our TEs still leave something to be desired, as did the coaching. 

[panfanman]

I was always dead set against trading up to #1 for anyone in this draft class.  Heck, I would have been against trading up to any spot and been ecstatic if Richardson had fallen to us which we now know wouldn't have happened but my back up scenario would have been Hooker ( and not with our 1st rounder). I knew this year was going to be toast anyway and wouldn't have minded him sitting this year and watching Andy do his thing.

 

It wouldn't have matter Young vs Stroud.  The price was too high and we weren't ready for a rookie under center.

Edited January 20 by panfanman

[ncsfinest21]

Stroud wouldve definitely look better. The inability to stretch the field kept defense stacking the box with no running game and pressing receivers. We want to say the Oline wasnt good but was it really that? When most of the plays are designed to get the ball out quick and defenses are playing tight, the play is called for Bryce to get rid of the ball not Oline holding forever for him to improvise. And then Bryce was throwing pick 6s early in the year a became scared to throw it because teams were lurking underneath. We had too many flaws because of his inability to throw past 20 yards.

Edited January 20 by ncsfinest21

[Sam the Cat]

On 1/19/2024 at 1:01 AM, demcj said:

  

there's zero chance of stroud looking like young did if the panthers drafted him.

it's one thing to be drafted by a losing team who can't get it's act together...it's another thing to look like you can't get your act together, and be one of the reasons as to why your team is losing.

stroud would have shown promise despite playing on a bad team. if young was drafted by the texans, they would have been asking the same question the panthers are asking...did we pick the right guy?

   

Not if we drafted him without moving up.

[SOJA]

On 1/18/2024 at 10:18 AM, Captroop said:

I always hear the, "Stroud wouldn't have looked as good on the Panthers this year if they'd taken him."

And while I agree he definitely would NOT have taken this team to the playoffs, I think that's an incredibly short-sighted view. The team won't be bad forever. But will Bryce ever play like a superstar?

I think you flip the question; if Bryce had been on Houston, would he have achieved the same level of success? Really, do you think he would have?

I just don't see anything in Bryce's game that leads me to think he will ever play up to Stroud's level.

I think this is the pill that's hardest to swallow. 

I know this board is very down on Bryce but I don't think he's as bas as this year suggests. But CJ has shown some best QB in the league type stuff this year. I think at his best Bryce could be a fringe Top 10 QB. At this best CJ may be the best QB in the league. 

 

It doesn't help that I really wanted Stroud 

[top dawg]

10 minutes ago, SOJA said:

I think this is the pill that's hardest to swallow. 

I know this board is very down on Bryce but I don't think he's as bas as this year suggests. But CJ has shown some best QB in the league type stuff this year. I think at his best Bryce could be a fringe Top 10 QB. At this best CJ may be the best QB in the league. 

 

It doesn't help that I really wanted Stroud 

I don't Stroud will ever be considered the best in the league, as he simply isn't twitchy and mobile enough when he has to play off platform. The only way I see him getting over that hurdle is to have an O-line that will afford him the time in the pocket for target practice. I just don't see it happening consistently enough, as pass rushers are also getting more and more athletic, and coaches aren't going to just allow you to sit back comfortably in the pocket and pick the team off.

[KatsAzz]

On 1/18/2024 at 11:48 AM, Ricky Spanish said:

It was a collaborative effort, but it was the majority Reich's offense. You can tell due to The SEVERE lack of pre-snap motion being a Reich thing and archaic in the modern NFL. The Rams use motion at one of the highest rates in the NFL, and that's where Brown came from. Motion, PA, and RPO rates all went up after Reich left. That isn't a coincidence.

Square peg, round hole trying to merge a mid 2000's offense built to be run by a statue in the mold of Peyton Manning or Philip Rivers with Shanahan style concepts built around distributing the ball quickly to playmakers to get YAC easily, all with a line built for the power run game and unable to grasp the complex blocking scheme of Reich's offense and receivers who can't get separation.

Failure top to bottom.

Thanks. You summed it up correctly and nicely.

 

[SOJA]

51 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I don't Stroud will ever be considered the best in the league, as he simply isn't twitchy and mobile enough when he has to play off platform. The only way I see him getting over that hurdle is to have an O-line that will afford him the time in the pocket for target practice. I just don't see it happening consistently enough, as pass rushers are also getting more and more athletic, and coaches aren't going to just allow you to sit back comfortably in the pocket and pick the team off.

we will see but he just put together what I consider the best rookie season ever 

[top dawg]

31 minutes ago, SOJA said:

we will see but he just put together what I consider the best rookie season ever 

I agree. But if you ask me to start a team today, I'm running to the podium and taking Mahomes before all. 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]