Carolina Definitely Chose the Wrong QB

[Waldo]

2 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

They should have stayed at 9 and just taken BPA to keep building the roster, but as I stated leading up to the draft, they had to give people some hope after so many losing seasons and take a QB. As for Young vs Stroud, Young was the better college QB. Young played better when pressured. Stroud just didn't play well when defenses got to him until the Georgia game. In that game, Stroud flipped a switch. Back then, I wondered if the Georgia game was a one off since the entire season had been the complete opposite for Stroud. That's why I preferred Young.

But Stroud has kept up his play. Kudos to him. Now the question is if he can keep that level of play up in the future. The question for Young is if he simply improve and make more plays like he did in college.

I don't get it. Young looked like a school level QB at best to me and Stroud looked NFL ready. I still don't understand how people can't see that.

[jayboogieman]

4 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

It has a few anonymous execs being interviewed about CJ vs. Bryce.

A few are still towing the "it's everything around him line" and we gotta do more to make him better. 

Some are saying it's a combination of factors including Bryce, he wasn't posied but we didn't put him in a good situation.  

...and a few others are on the we-made-a-mistake camp.  See below:

So it seems the lively debate here persists in the execs world.  

2024 is going to tell us a lot about Bryce and the future of this team.  This GM and Coaching hire becomes all the more critical.  

The article rounds out by mentioning the S2 leak fiasco and how certain execs didn't buy it because CJ obviously has a strong football IQ.  Also says in a nutshell how you can't close the book just yet but we've created a bad situation.  And that CJ has just been awesome.

Comments like the quotes you posted scream CYA and being right in hindsight to me. There was very little being reported about all this disagreement that Young wasn't the better of the two before the draft. But it doesn't really matter as the past is the past and most people have the attention span of a goldfish these days.

[Waldo]

10 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

It has a few anonymous execs being interviewed about CJ vs. Bryce.

A few are still towing the "it's everything around him line" and we gotta do more to make him better. 

Some are saying it's a combination of factors including Bryce, he wasn't posied but we didn't put him in a good situation.  

...and a few others are on the we-made-a-mistake camp.  See below:

So it seems the lively debate here persists in the execs world.  

2024 is going to tell us a lot about Bryce and the future of this team.  This GM and Coaching hire becomes all the more critical.  

The article rounds out by mentioning the S2 leak fiasco and how certain execs didn't buy it because CJ obviously has a strong football IQ.  Also says in a nutshell how you can't close the book just yet but we've created a bad situation.  And that CJ has just been awesome.

 

With all the people that were high on him, most will keep towing the everything around him until after this draft cycle and then they can switch their narratives without admiting they were ever wrong. Kudos to the ones that call it like it looks.

I wish 2024 held some mystery of improvement but after 6 seasons we should all expect what is coming next.

Edit: 5 seasons? On the 6th now I guess.

 

Edited January 18 by Waldo

[jayboogieman]

3 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I don't get it. Young looked like a school level QB at best to me and Stroud looked NFL ready. I still don't understand how people can't see that.

People looked beyond the size and in some cases saw what they wanted. But if you watched their college games, you saw Young escape pressure, dance around in the backfield, and make a good pass a lot. Now, there were games that didn't happen too. You also saw Stroud stand in the pocket throw to his first read a lot since he rarely ran in college and had a good Oline. I don't blame him since his first read was open 90% or more of the time because they were elite receivers. Every QB throws to the first read if they're open, so nobody should blame him for that and I certainly don't. In the few games where the defense was able to pressure Stroud, he made bad decisions, bad throws, and took sacks. It's why people questioned if it was the OSU system that made Stroud look so good most of the time or him being a great QB.

Honestly, all you can do is go by their tape. Making throws in shorts at their pro days in controlled environments is easy. So are the combine events since guys have been specifically training for them for years. It takes more than a RAS score to be a good player. But on the flip side you have guys that are great college players that just can't play in the pros for whatever reason. I guess it just comes down to making your best guess and praying you're right if you're a scout and GM. Otherwise, you're out of a job.

[jayboogieman]

18 minutes ago, Waldo said:

 

With all the people that were high on him, most will keep towing the everything around him until after this draft cycle and then they can switch their narratives without admiting they were ever wrong. Kudos to the ones that call it like it looks.

I wish 2024 held some mystery of improvement but after 6 seasons we should all expect what is coming next.

Edit: 5 seasons? On the 6th now I guess.

 

Young was put in the worst situation of any of the rookie QBs by a long shot. That said, he could have played better too. I honestly don't think any of the rookies would have had success in Carolina this season and wonder if any vets would have as well.

As for 2024, I fully expect more of what we've had since Tepper took over. And that's bad, losing football. Tepper will most likely stick with the coach and GM through at least part of 2025 though since he'll want to try to rehab his image some.

[PghPanther]

Let put the horse before the cart here.........

Rather than the wrong QB.........

Its more like the NFL and its group of owners approved the wrong person to purchase the Panthers.

Everything else from that decision for the past 6 years is nothing but trickle down mistakes from the Tepper money tree pruning............ 

[Waldo]

4 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

People looked beyond the size and in some cases saw what they wanted. But if you watched their college games, you saw Young escape pressure, dance around in the backfield, and make a good pass a lot. Now, there were games that didn't happen too. You also saw Stroud stand in the pocket throw to his first read a lot since he rarely ran in college and had a good Oline. I don't blame him since his first read was open 90% or more of the time because they were elite receivers. Every QB throws to the first read if they're open, so nobody should blame him for that and I certainly don't. In the few games where the defense was able to pressure Stroud, he made bad decisions, bad throws, and took sacks. It's why people questioned if it was the OSU system that made Stroud look so good most of the time or him being a great QB.

Honestly, all you can do is go by their tape. Making throws in shorts at their pro days in controlled environments is easy. So are the combine events since guys have been specifically training for them for years. It takes more than a RAS score to be a good player. But on the flip side you have guys that are great college players that just can't play in the pros for whatever reason. I guess it just comes down to making your best guess and praying you're right if you're a scout and GM. Otherwise, you're out of a job.

I saw a lot of WRs making plays and his escapability looked college level. It wasn't Wilson or Murray level. The level of talent and coaching disparity between the NFL and school make taking a chance on Strouds talent being coschable vs Young looking peaked at that level should have been the nail but it wasn't.

I think people just take their excitement from that level to be actual ability. The overall talent level at that level tells you all you need to know when you compare the talent of a Stroud or Cam to a Young. Even Wilson went in the 3rd for good reasons and he was more talented than Young. I agree at the end of the day you have to take a swing but if multiple picks, now 2 #1 overall, you have to be right which is why I was always agaisnt a trade of that magnitude. 

[Waldo]

4 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Young was put in the worst situation of any of the rookie QBs by a long shot. That said, he could have played better too. I honestly don't think any of the rookies would have had success in Carolina this season and wonder if any vets would have as well.

As for 2024, I fully expect more of what we've had since Tepper took over. And that's bad, losing football. Tepper will most likely stick with the coach and GM through at least part of 2025 though since he'll want to try to rehab his image some.

I can agree with no having great success here but they shouldn't have looked like busts throughout.

I don't know. It feels, just my opinion, that Tepper will miss on his savior and have to settle again. Look how that turned out at QB after he had to settle after missing on Stafford and then Watson. Tepper wants to be the smartest guy in the room but also the loudest guy with all of the attention. He loved having that #1 pick so he could talk about it and force people to listen to him. He is a total drama queen so the new hires could both be 1 and done again though I am guessing a GM he hires will be more of 'his guy' while the HC is looked at as more at fault (since Tepper still looks to understand so little about the game and leauge in general). I would be shocked if Johnson or even his plan B comes here so 1 and done is on the table still for 2025 at HC in my mind until it's not.

 

[jayboogieman]

6 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I saw a lot of WRs making plays and his escapability looked college level. It wasn't Wilson or Murray level. The level of talent and coaching disparity between the NFL and school make taking a chance on Strouds talent being coschable vs Young looking peaked at that level should have been the nail but it wasn't.

I think people just take their excitement from that level to be actual ability. The overall talent level at that level tells you all you need to know when you compare the talent of a Stroud or Cam to a Young. Even Wilson went in the 3rd for good reasons and he was more talented than Young. I agree at the end of the day you have to take a swing but if multiple picks, now 2 #1 overall, you have to be right which is why I was always agaisnt a trade of that magnitude. 

Yeah, the trade was a huge mistake and cost way too much. As for Young being peaked, eh, he can add muscle and get stronger. He can also work on his passing and footwork to improve them. Young can't do squat about his height though. He's not going to get taller.

I'm not willing to call him a bust yet though. Let's see what happens after he has an NFL offseason strength and conditioning program and hopefully at least an average NFL Oline playing to their strengths. Now, if he still looks bad after that, then yeah, I'd say he's a bust.

[jayboogieman]

2 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I can agree with no having great success here but they shouldn't have looked like busts throughout.

I don't know. It feels, just my opinion, that Tepper will miss on his savior and have to settle again. Look how that turned out at QB after he had to settle after missing on Stafford and then Watson. Tepper wants to be the smartest guy in the room but also the loudest guy with all of the attention. He loved having that #1 pick so he could talk about it and force people to listen to him. He is a total drama queen so the new hires could both be 1 and done again though I am guessing a GM he hires will be more of 'his guy' while the HC is looked at as more at fault (since Tepper still looks to understand so little about the game and leauge in general). I would be shocked if Johnson or even his plan B comes here so 1 and done is on the table still for 2025 at HC in my mind until it's not.

 

You hit the nail on the head about about Tepper's ego. That's why I think he'll be willing to give his new hires a longer leash. Tepper's ego has taken a beating in the press, so he'll want to prove them wrong. But I wouldn't be shocked to see him fire them after half the season either.

I agree he will hire another yes man as GM too.

[Waldo]

2 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Yeah, the trade was a huge mistake and cost way too much. As for Young being peaked, eh, he can add muscle and get stronger. He can also work on his passing and footwork to improve them. Young can't do squat about his height though. He's not going to get taller.

I'm not willing to call him a bust yet though. Let's see what happens after he has an NFL offseason strength and conditioning program and hopefully at least an average NFL Oline playing to their strengths. Now, if he still looks bad after that, then yeah, I'd say he's a bust.

He has to escape the pocket like he did in school and his escapabiliry doesn't look NFL level. That's peaked. So many times he had to run into a line gap in school to toss it up while his WRs made the play. That's peaked.

Maybe they can get him a better line and an amazing HC to scheme him but if Tua isn't gpod enough Young really isn't and if Miami wants a ring they need a QB that can win in the ugly playoff level games (they only won agaisnt the Boys by a ref in regular season right?).

He is busting but time and all of that. Some is on the team and some is on him.

[jayboogieman]

2 minutes ago, Waldo said:

He has to escape the pocket like he did in school and his escapabiliry doesn't look NFL level. That's peaked. So many times he had to run into a line gap in school to toss it up while his WRs made the play. That's peaked.

Maybe they can get him a better line and an amazing HC to scheme him but if Tua isn't gpod enough Young really isn't and if Miami wants a ring they need a QB that can win in the ugly playoff level games (they only won agaisnt the Boys by a ref in regular season right?).

He is busting but time and all of that. Some is on the team and some is on him.

As I said, we'll see what happens with Young. Hopefully, whoever Tepper hires can build an offense that takes advantage of what Young did in college.

I have no idea how Tua has looked. I haven't watched any NFL games except for parts of Panthers games the last couple years. I've been getting my football fix watching college games.

[Waldo]

1 minute ago, jayboogieman said:

You hit the nail on the head about about Tepper's ego. That's why I think he'll be willing to give his new hires a longer leash. Tepper's ego has taken a beating in the press, so he'll want to prove them wrong. But I wouldn't be shocked to see him fire them after half the season either.

I agree he will hire another yes man as GM too.

It's Tepper. Anyone that sells him a plan he loves he will do so anthing is on the table. With how he managed his team and how different levels have access to him the options of fail are wide open.

Until more people shun him, at least the good people, then he won't change. Having nothing but scrubs as options will leave only one person he can be mad at, himself. It's sounding headed in that direction but not there yet. A couple more 1 and done would do it i think.

[Waldo]

2 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

As I said, we'll see what happens with Young. Hopefully, whoever Tepper hires can build an offense that takes advantage of what Young did in college.

I have no idea how Tua has looked. I haven't watched any NFL games except for parts of Panthers games the last couple years. I've been getting my football fix watching college games.

I am not about building a college progam in the NFL. You can't adjust for the tallent level down so absolutely try to coach him up but his college playbook won't work in the NFL.

Edited January 18 by Waldo