Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

With Panthers cleaning house how safe is Bryce


Frank9999
 Share

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, NAS said:

The only trade that was close to being as bad as Panthers was 49ers trade for Lance, but Lynch and Shannahan kept their jobs by finding Mr. Irrelevant.  Also, they still built an amazingly strong roster on both sides of the ball so it can be done.

in a vacuum it's a worse trade.  bad things happen.  what the 49ers did however, was not buy into some mistake that they were then forced to be stuck with someone who couldn't get the job done. 

we shouldn't want a new GM/HC that is committed to Bryce Young no matter what.  We should always be looking to build a complete roster with depth.   You don't double and triple down on stuff that isn't working. 

I think Bryce can improve in a better scenario.  But it's not a given.  He has a lot working against him that most guys drafted in his position aren't having to overcome.  And I am totally open to that fact he could have a sophomore slump and get worse.   Because NFL teams are going to have an offseason and 16 games to then gameplan for a limited QB.  And Bryce is limited. 

  • Pie 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, NAS said:

The only trade that was close to being as bad as Panthers was 49ers trade for Lance, but Lynch and Shannahan kept their jobs by finding Mr. Irrelevant.  Also, they still built an amazingly strong roster on both sides of the ball so it can be done.

Their saving grace was the rest of the roster they built. If not for that and getting absolutely lucky with Mr. Irrelevant they would be unemployed over the Lance debacle. 

  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jon Snow said:

Their saving grace was the rest of the roster they built. If not for that and getting absolutely lucky with Mr. Irrelevant they would be unemployed over the Lance debacle. 

The luck part was jimmy g being hurt so Purdy took all of the 2nd string reps in camp.  They knew what they had and he got valuable practice time so he could step in after lance went down

  • Beer 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/8/2024 at 11:07 AM, Frank9999 said:

Dude tepper firing everyone after this season is already admitting he was wrong. I think too much is being made of this supposed attachment to Bryce. 

Hope you are right. But then his wife will be mad at him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, recceice said:

Happy Eddie Murphy GIF by Laff
 

This board is filled with ppl living in a bubble..

Reality check.. 

1. More than half the league had him as the number 1 QB coming out.. Meaning most of the ppl we are looking to hire thought he was the best QB in the draft..

 

2. Most of the league aren’t looking at this season as a BY issue.. The Panthers in many respected league analysts opinion were the problem not BY.. So it’s a good chance you will be able to find a coach that wanted to work with BY before this season and still does now.. 

 

3. Tepper will be more of a reason coaches and GM’s won’t come here before BY.. (Number 1 reason) imo

The Oline will be more of a reason coaches won’t come here then BY..

Having to rebuild the weapons around him will be a bigger reason ppl might say no then BY..

Ppl need to just prepare themselves for this reality..

 

We get it. You're gay for Bryce. You want to marry him, but does he even know you exist?

Edited by BenjaminBreeg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, CRA said:

in a vacuum it's a worse trade.  bad things happen.  what the 49ers did however, was not buy into some mistake that they were then forced to be stuck with someone who couldn't get the job done. 

we shouldn't want a new GM/HC that is committed to Bryce Young no matter what.  We should always be looking to build a complete roster with depth.   You don't double and triple down on stuff that isn't working. 

I think Bryce can improve in a better scenario.  But it's not a given.  He has a lot working against him that most guys drafted in his position aren't having to overcome.  And I am totally open to that fact he could have a sophomore slump and get worse.   Because NFL teams are going to have an offseason and 16 games to then gameplan for a limited QB.  And Bryce is limited. 

I actually don't believe in what the 49ers did at all. They gave up everything for Lance only to trade him for peanuts after THREE games played. I don't care who you are, you are not a bust after 3 games. For pespective, Bryce Young has played over 5x as many games for the Panthers as Lance did for the 49ers. Sure, sunk cost fallacy and all that but you don't know what you have after 3 games, especially with someone with such raw talent as Lance.

The dumbest part is that they cut him for someone who is undebatably 100x less talented. Purdy has shown exactly who he is when he doesn't have all three of his future HOFers.

Edited by IndyPanther
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, IndyPanther said:

I actually don't believe in what the 49ers did at all. They gave up everything for Lance only to trade him for peanuts after THREE games played. I don't care who you are, you are not a bust after 3 games. For pespective, Bryce Young has played over 5x as many games for the Panthers as Lance did for the 49ers.

The dumbest part is that they cut him for someone who is undebatably 100x less talented. Purdy has shown exactly who he is when he doesn't have all three of his future HOFers.

they also had him in camp/practice.  Lance wasn't good enough to be on the field.  He wasn't where/what Shanahan needed for his O to tick.....he wasn't there. 

I mean, he can be way more talented than Purdy and Purdy make the Shannahan engine go more efficiently.  Which is what we saw.   And all that matters to the coach/team.  I mean, I got the 49ers in the Super Bowl at this point.  Don't you? 

I'm not certain Lance is a bust.  He could still develop into something.  Everyone isn't day 1 ready.  That's okay.  He sure never appeared that way.   But that's the expectation of the pick from everyone around football (fans/media/etc) and there was going to a lot of noise.   Trade location stunk for Lance though.  He needs injury in Dallas for a shot. 

I don't think they traded Lance because they thought Sam was more talented lol.  I think they were looking to quiet the noise and nonsense everyone would have to do deal with in SF if Lance stayed.  It's a distraction that doesn't really go away given what they gave up for him and what he was SUPPOSED to be.  They just took it on the chin and moved on.   

  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

they also had him in camp/practice.  Lance wasn't good enough to be on the field.  He wasn't where/what Shanahan needed for his O to tick.....he wasn't there. 

I mean, he can be way more talented than Purdy and Purdy make the Shannahan engine go more efficiently.  Which is what we saw.   And all that matters to the coach/team.  I mean, I got the 49ers in the Super Bowl at this point.  Don't you? 

I'm not certain Lance is a bust.  He could still develop into something.  Everyone isn't day 1 ready.  That's okay.  He sure never appeared that way.   But that's the expectation of the pick from everyone around football (fans/media/etc) and there was going to a lot of noise.   Trade location stunk for Lance though.  He needs injury in Dallas for a shot. 

I don't think they traded Lance because they thought Sam was more talented lol.  I think they were looking to quiet the noise and nonsense everyone would have to do deal with in SF if Lance stayed.  It's a distraction that doesn't really go away given what they gave up for him and what he was SUPPOSED to be.  They just took it on the chin and moved on.   

No, watching him in practice is not good enough evaluation when you gave up 3 first round picks to get him.

I don't have the 49ers in the Super Bowl, although I admittedly stopped watching the NFL when Flacco was signed over Cam. But the 3 game stretch without Deebo showed exactly who Purdy is - someone who needs his skill position players to be 3x-4x more talented than those defending them. That will simply not happen 3 consecutive times in the playoffs.

No one is certain Lance is a bust... unless you can travel to a dimension in which he actually played in the NFL. It's just likely he would've been a HOFer as a bust.

I get why they wouldn't want Lance as a backup but not why they wouldn't want him as a starter, especially considering the other options on the roster.

Malik Willis, Trey Lance, and even present-day Cam Newton are more talented than half the QBs starting in the NFL this year, yet it only took 7 games played in the last 3 seasons BETWEEN THEM to determine that all 3 are done and cannot play in the NFL.

Remember when Baker was done after his 5 games here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, IndyPanther said:

No, watching him in practice is not good enough evaluation when you gave up 3 first round picks to get him.

I don't have the 49ers in the Super Bowl, although I admittedly stopped watching the NFL when Flacco was signed over Cam. But the 3 game stretch without Deebo showed exactly who Purdy is - someone who needs his skill position players to be 3x-4x more talented than those defending them. That will simply not happen 3 consecutive times in the playoffs.

No one is certain Lance is a bust... unless you can travel to a dimension in which he actually played in the NFL. It's just likely he would've been a HOFer as a bust.

I get why they wouldn't want Lance as a backup but not why they wouldn't want him as a starter, especially considering the other options on the roster.

Malik Willis, Trey Lance, and even present-day Cam Newton are more talented than half the QBs starting in the NFL this year, yet it only took 7 games played in the last 3 seasons BETWEEN THEM to determine that all 3 are done and cannot play in the NFL.

Remember when Baker was done after his 5 games here?

Baker is in the playoff because the NFCS stink not because he is good, just good enough. Good for him but no he isn't a good QB. 

Lance appeared in 19 games in three years (edit: lol 8 games in 2 seasons, I used his school games le sigh Link I used), they knew what they had. He didn't play more because of injury and poor play. Lance is a bust for them but he has the next few seasons to try and prove he isn't a complete bust. In that situation with Purdy looking better there wasn't any reasons to keep him around and a lot of reasons to not do so.

Willis has looked awful, no where close to NFL level playable but he is on a rookie deal but also has to face a new HC (still has not thrown a TD in 11 games of play). Cam is awesome but his shoulder is done so unless someone is using him as a powerback he doesn't have an NFL future barring some kind of medical miracle. Purdy is a great fit in that system but yeah Cam was right and a lot of people still do not like that.

Edited by Waldo
  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CRA said:

Yeah, I think it’s sort of overlooked how quick and easy Tepper could be done with Bryce.  Tepper cuts his losses quicker than a lot of owners.  I mean he is putting himself in position to have to do it….but he still does it. 
 

End of the day QB play is just that.  What you gave up for a player doesn’t really matter.  And it’s why Mr Irrelevant might play in the Super Bowl this year and the last guy who cost as much as Bryce is somewhere on a bench with another team.  The gotta give him 2-3 years just because mantra just ain’t something I am buy in todays NFL.  

He absolutely could Teddy him this offseason and I have mixed feelings, at least get some value or it will look terrible to not give him at least a toke additional season to try and improve. Tepper has seen he isn't good enough. The only question is does he understand that and will he allow a good plan to make that mistake go away? No idea but that possibility does exist with his history. 

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I think Tepper made huge strides in this area last year as well. It’s obvious he has trust in the Canales/Morgan pairing - and rightfully so.  
    • Did you really just source your own Twitter account? LOL 
    • There are times during the prolonged, pre-draft process that you abandon your gut feelings and allow yourself to be persuaded by popular opinion.  My gut was more consistent with what Morgan et al did than my conclusions.  Here is why (my theory): 1. With social media, one opinion is often repeated until it seems like the majority. The more you see it, the more you feel that your gut was wrong.  You second guess and conform at times.  In January, if you told me TMac would be there at 8, I would have been very interested because there weren't other WRs like him and he was dominant on a bad team.  I let the comments about film, questions about separation, etc. sway my opinion.  I started comparing him to Kelvin Benajamin in my head (work ethic). So I took him off my board. 2.  Morgan said something rather profound (parphrasing): "We did not want to be restricted by need."  IMO, the biggest needs were Edge, S, WR.  We assume that the biggest need is aligned with the first overall pick in most situations.  Everyone was talking about Jalon Walker because Micah Parsons is a similar beast and Abdul Carter would be off the board.   However, as a former coach at Salisbury High School and someone who vaguely knew Walker's father before he was born, I still could not see the fit here.  I think Walker is a great person and will be a good pro, but he did not fill our needs.  TMac was the best player who filled a primary need and we could not find another TMac-type player in the draft.  However, there would be second round Edges that were, in my view, potentially as good NFL players.  The first through early third rounds were loaded with edges.  3. Since edge was our biggest need, Morgan added 2--one in the second and one in the third.  They mentioned referring to statistics to see the likelihood of a player being available at 55 as opposed to 59, guiding their trade practices, for example.  I noticed the talent grades did not drop as much for edge players into early round three and the WR market dropped rapidly.  Morgan mentioned that they only had 3 second round WRs on their board, which is why TMac in round 1 was smart.  I also posted the following stats from the internet and it is never wrong: First-round picks in the NFL Draft have a higher success rate than those in the second or third rounds. Whilethe first round boasts a success rate of around 58%, the second round is nearly as good at 49%. However, the third round sees a significant drop, with only a 25% success rate.    So let's do math.  If you draft 1 edge at #8 he has (since it is early in the round) about a 60% chance of being successful.  Morgan would earn 6 success tokens for his Edge need. If you draft an edge in the second, Morgan would earn 5 success tokens for his edge need. If you draft an edge in the third, Morgan earns 2.5 success tokens for his edge need. So Morgan gets the draft's WR unicorn in the first round and by using the second and third round selections, addresses the biggest need by collecting 7.5 success tokens instead of 6.   Morgan has a high probability of being successful with 2 of 3 of the teams' biggest needs.  He was not needs driven, however, he was market driven.  Supply and demand.  He was smart. Had we drafted Walker, a player who is a stud and can be most effective as an ILB with versatility, I am not sure we successfully addressed the need.  Other players with first round talent either lacked college productivity or had red flags.  We would HAVE to target one of the 3 WRs the Panthers had listed as second round possibilities (I am guessing Higgins and Burden III and Beck--all far inferior to TMac).  Higgins and Burden III were drafted before they were within trade range and it is not surprising that happened--leaving the Panthers with a only Beck at pick 57.  Putting that in perspective, Edge Scourton was taken at pick 51 and Mike Green was taken at pick 59. However, there were 5 edge players taken in the second round.  There were 6 edge players taken in round 3.  Value TMac was rated #4 by PFF and J. Walker was rated #25.  Meanwhile Beck (WR), the only second round WR available in round 2 (I should point out that Tre Harris was rated by PFF at #66, and he was taken in the mid second) was rated 40.  Had we taken an edge in round 1, it is likely we would have ended up with J Walker (#25) and in round 2 Beck (#40).  Instead, we drafted TMac (#4) and Scourton (PFF #29) and Princely (PFF #50). https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2025-nfl-draft-board-big-board In terms of trade value points, the PFF scores value Morgan's first and second round vs. the probably first and second round (had we taken Walker and then the best WR available in round 2 Beck): So you see, Morgan ended up, using the PFF ranking system, doubling the value he got from the first two picks than if he had taken Walker instead of TMac and then drafted the best WR left at pick 51 or 57. In terms of what actually happened, TMac was drafted at #8 and Scourton was taken at #51--this suggests that the Panthers got great value vs. the PFF rankings.  Walker was taken at #15, (10 places higher than his rankings) and Beck was taken at 58, (18 places lower than his rankings.)  So how did Morgan do if you compare drafting Walker/WR vs TMac/Edge?   So Morgan's value was still 24% higher than it would have been had he drafted Walker.  Of course, this does not factor in trades, etc.  but you get the idea.
×
×
  • Create New...