It sucks giving up the 1st overall pick...

[TN05]

Not having the 1st overall isn't a huge problem, but not having a 1st rounder at all when we desperately need a rebuild is crippling

[BenjaminBreeg]

12 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

I simply don't feel Young is anywhere near a bust. The oline has been horrible most of the season.  With protection, young has proven he can carve up defenses.  

This last Sunday's game thenoline couldn't block an inanimate object. As much as yall are calling Icky a bust at LT, he was our rightist graded lineman from that game. 

I don't care how good a QB is, they don't stand a chance to be able to perform when their oline is incapable of protecting him. 

Young has been sacked over 50 times already. 

Stop ignoring how bad the lines play is. No matter that the modern NFL more resembles 2 hand touch,  the play in the trenches still is imperative to good play on either side of the ball. 

Stop blaming the O-line and start blaming Young's hair product.

[Khyber53]

13 hours ago, t96 said:

I'm as down on this team as anyone here and hate Tepper just as much as everyone else and have just about zero confidence whatsoever that under him we'll ever have success. But I am an optimist and heart and it has dawned on me recently that as much as it may suck giving up the fuging 1st overall pick in that trade for Bust Young, the thing that matters absolutely most in this league for winning is not draft position as highlighted by 1st overall pick history. It's having competency/expertise at GM/HC. Do I think we're going to get those with Tepper pulling the strings, no.

 

But as much as it sucks to give up 1st overall, it's not a franchise changing or altering trade by any means. Look at the list of 1st overall picks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first_overall_National_Football_League_Draft_picks

Outside of Eric Fisher (a wholly average OT for the Chiefs in a terrible draft year who they got rid of right after he won the 1st SB with them) the last 1st overall pick to actually win a Super Bowl with the team that drafted him was Peyton Manning. Lot of busts, average players, QBs who never quite become truly elite/SB winners, etc. Yes Eli, Stafford won SBs but not with the teams that drafted them. Burrow made a SB but didn't win and seems quite injury prone.

 

Point is, this isn't quite the disaster that it appears to be. Organizations with sustained success are pretty much never picking in the top 10-15 let alone 1st overall, and they still sustain that success, and that success starts with GM/HC. Yes getting a QB in place matters there too but we've seen teams/coaches continue that sustained success with multiple QBs. Reid, Carroll, Harbaugh, Tomlin, even K Shanahan... As much as Tepper sucks, it is conceivable that he could get lucky and hit on a GM/HC combo who could make this team a winner. The right GM would be able to build a team without that pick and without high picks in general (or just a few in early rebuild years). 

 

Maybe I'm just coping for rooting for a dumbass team that went 2-15 after trading away their upcoming 1st round pick but it's a different, more positive perspective. And with the current state of this organization I think we need some occasional positivity. Not blind hope like the whole offseason but some glimpses of positivity. 

I admire your optimism and point of view here. I'm still pissed about it, though. Never go all in on a shot at an inside straight. We got suckered.

[musicman]

Having the 1st pick of the 2nd round is the best outcome for sucking this bad. If you landed with the 3rd overall pick, or even slightly higher, it wouldn't matter. We didn't have the 1st round. Having the 1st 2nd round pick will have teams trading multiple picks for us to move back. Looking ahead positively. 

 

[ClawOn]

10 hours ago, bythenbrs said:

Ya'll are missing the brilliant strategery of Tepp and Fitterer.  We trade Moore and picks to draft Bryce number one in 2023, who becomes the key cog in our 2024 tank strategy, so that we can get the number one pick in 2025.  I tell ya, this is next level strategery, boys...

5D chess.  Funny thing is it's possible it turns out to be true: the cupboard is bare so we will almost definitely have 1 in 2025.  Can't count on a smart GM hire but maybe it's a Lawrence/ Luck type decision that even the Panthers can't screw up.

[pantherclaw]

5 hours ago, BenjaminBreeg said:

Stop blaming the O-line and start blaming Young's hair product.

I watch the games. I am not blind. Thanks for you bs. 

[CRA]

18 hours ago, t96 said:

But as much as it sucks to give up 1st overall, it's not a franchise changing or altering trade by any means. Look at the list of 1st overall picks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first_overall_National_Football_League_Draft_picks

 

I mean, if you look at the last 15 #1 overall picks before Bryce Young.....12 of the 15 were Pro Bowl players.  And one of those that wasn't was the last pick only going on his 2nd year.  It's been about as auto of a non-bust as draft picks can get of late.   They haven't all been franchise changers but that's a hard pick to give away. 

[PghPanther]

Young's ceiling looks like it might be Delhomme like.....not bad (and Jake was a baller in his prime) but not what you would expect from an NFL #1 overall draft pick for a QB position. 

[grateflday]

18 hours ago, hepcat said:

The Panthers natural trajectory wasn’t getting the #1 overall pick this season unless they traded this pick to get Bryce Young who is a bad enough QB to get the #1 overall pick. 

This is why I am not so bent out of shape "the Panthers gave up the #1 pick" because if not for the trade, they roll into the season with a veteran QB, DJ Moore, etc and end up finishing picking between 8 to 12 again.  If anything the mistake was they picked the wrong QB.  

[CRA]

1 minute ago, PghPanther said:

Young's ceiling looks like it might be Delhomme like.....not bad (and Jake was a baller in his prime) but not what you would expect from an NFL #1 overall draft pick for a QB position. 

I mean, that's a unique analogy.  Delhomme was a fearless gunslinger.  Like a crappy version of Brett Favre without the tools.  I don't think Delhomme when I think Bryce Young. 

I think his ceiling is Teddy Bridgewater (but with better wheels).

[hepcat]

3 minutes ago, grateflday said:

This is why I am not so bent out of shape "the Panthers gave up the #1 pick" because if not for the trade, they roll into the season with a veteran QB, DJ Moore, etc and end up finishing picking between 8 to 12 again.  If anything the mistake was they picked the wrong QB.  

I've long said that trading up for a QB was not a bad decision. Trading away your best WR as part of a deal to get a rookie WR was incredibly dumb. Trading the amount of assets they did for this particular QB also appears very dumb. The general idea was fine, the execution and decisions that were made were terrible. 

[BenjaminBreeg]

27 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

I watch the games. I am not blind. Thanks for you bs. 

I watched the games too, with open eyes. The O-line is problematic, but Bryce is the problem. In fact, Bryce creates problems for both the O-line and the receivers because his footwork, timing, arm strength, accuracy, decision making, processing, and pocket awareness are all absolutely atrocious. 

[pantherj]

If you asked me how to destroy the Panthers, or any NFL team, without anyone catching on, I would say do the following:

Bring in QBs who have already failed at the NFL level. Trade any offensive players who are dominant at their position. Draft or bring in offensive linemen who can't pass block. Spend a lot of high draft picks on defensive players. Hold on to defensive vets with diamond hands. Build up the defense. Make a crazy expensive trade up for an undersized QB who might not be able to transition to the NFL. The next step to finish off the franchise would be to hand out mega contracts to the defensive players. If I were a spy for another team, then I'd be doing exactly what Fitt has done.  

[SCO96]

Hopefully an important lesson has been learned. Never trade up into the top 5 for a QB unless the team is solid on both sides of the ball is truly only a playmaking QB away from contending for a conference title.

Too much draft capital is used to make such a move; and sometime as was our case...you may lose a talented player in the deal. 

I wouldn't trust Fitterer to draft a fantasy team. But, a good GM could have filled a lot of holes in the 2023 draft if we had kept the picks we had on Day 1 (ie no trade up for JAGS like DJ Johnson). I would have been content to take Levis in the top 10 for our QB(he has all of the physical tools to play the position). We'd still have DJ Moore at WR.  If you didn't like Levis you could have used that for another position of need and signed a veteran like Dalton or Flacco to hold things steady thru 2023.

The 2024 draft would have been the ideal year to try to move up. Take a look at the guys who may be coming out this year (from the USA Today site).

 

1. Jayden Daniels, LSU (QBR: 95.7)
2. Bo Nix, Oregon (90.9)
3. J.J. McCarthy, Michigan (89.3)
4. Michael Penix Jr., Washington (83.2)
5. Caleb Williams, Southern California (82.1)
6. Jordan Travis, Florida State (80.0)
7. Drake Maye, North Carolina (79.5)
8. Quinn Ewers, Texas (78.9)
9. Michael Pratt, Tulane (65.8)
10. Shedeur Sanders, Colorado (63.0)

I think most of us would take any of these guys over Bryce based on his 2023 season in Carolina if we had a do over. One of these QB's would have likely fallen to us. Or, we could be in a position to move up because the talent from the  2023 draft should have moved us closer to contending in the NFC.