A review of Scott Fitterer's drafts (spoiler alert: they suck)

[MHS831]

The Corral pick tells the story because we needed a QB and it was a bad QB class.  However, they passed on Pickett, an NFL starter.  Not great, but if you need a QB, that was the second year we passed on a QB that would become an NFL starter.  The year before, we passed on 2 starters in the first round--admittedly, both are struggling, but the player we took (Horn) has had less production.  OK, so we see Malik Willis get drafted and immediately hit the phones--all QBs should have been heavily scouted.  We trade UP to get Corral, but why?  What was the difference between Corral and Howell?  I liked Purdy early in the draft research cycle, but I sorta forgot about him, and on a different team, I doubt he is Brock Purdy today.  But he was then and is now better than Matt Corral.  So why trade up?  Howell was drafted 2 round later, and Purdy, 2 rounds after Howell. 

I guess we should not be that worried about losing the first overall pick this year because our GM would probably draft Slim Pinkerton, holder on kickoffs when the wind is blowing. 

[Tr3ach]

31 minutes ago, CRA said:

Matt Rhule (while horrific) was never the catch all boogeyman some wanted him to be.  Which is basically a pattern us fans take.  And Matt Rhule called out the bullshit narrative fans that folks were running with that just because he had a break glass emergency line in his contract (that really all coaches should officially or unofficially have)....which people claimed meant that he was making all the personnel moves.   Everything was placed on Rhule. You are only willing to draw that line in the sand while attempting to rehab your image if you are correct.  Because the Panthers easily could of leaked and pushed back derailing his PR tour.  They didn't for a reason.  Because Rhule wasn't the all powerful calling all the personnel shots.  A lot of that bad moves under the Rhule era were because a poo coach was paired with a poo GM....and Scott has always been responsible for a sizeable chunk of the nightmare for BOTH of his coaches. 

No excuse for Fitt not to be fired with Rhule.  Tepper probably hires another bad GM but there would have at least been hope he paired Reich with a GM who shared a vision and goal.  Clearly Fitt and Reich were never on the same page.  Different visions.  Different job security concerns/roles.   Fitt and Tepper needed that #1 overall pick.  They need to sale a bunch of smoke and mirror nonsense.  Frank never had power to fully do whatever he thought should be done.  From talent to his own staff.  Frank was a Ron/Fox.  Which means he was destined to get us to .500 if you just left him alone to do what he wanted.  They were trying to rehab their stock with the fanbase/team.  Reich didn't need it. Everything under Tepper has been a predictable nightmare. 

100% this.  Everyone always wants to find someone to pin 100% of the blame on when there is plenty to go around.  Im not sure why though, I guess because if you make one person the face of every problem then the problem seems easier to fix. 

[Captroop]

15 hours ago, frankw said:

I chuckled that someone on the first page immediately took to blaming Matt Rhule and the scouts.

Fitterer sees himself as some sort of wheeling and dealing guru when in reality he is significantly worse than both Marty Hurney and Dave Gettleman.

All that being said David Tepper is and has been in his ear pushing and prodding along the way. There's a reason he's so seemingly resistant to canning the guy.

You have to blame the scouts. Fitterer is making the call on the pick, but he's doing that based on the information he's getting from the people whose job it is to evaluate the talent level of prospects, and their ability to translate to the professional game.

I'll say it: I don't have a problem with the wheeling and dealing to be in on every deal and moving picks around. I think that's what Fitterer thinks the job of a GM is, and he does it very well.

 

The problem is that none of the picks we've traded for have panned out. If we'd hit, the CMC trade would look better. Hell, even the trade to #1 would look a lot better if we'd taken Stroud.

The problem is we have been consistently wrong on the talent we've been drafting, while much more talented players are being taken after them. We have an enormous talent evaluation problem. And while Fitterer is rightly in the crosshairs, don't expect that issue to be resolved if continue to have the same people with boots on the ground at the pro days and combines, who are watching the footwork, analyzing the BS next-gen metrics, looking at the health reports, and still drafting duds.

[Waldo]

6 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

The Corral pick tells the story because we needed a QB and it was a bad QB class.  However, they passed on Pickett, an NFL starter.  Not great, but if you need a QB, that was the second year we passed on a QB that would become an NFL starter.  The year before, we passed on 2 starters in the first round--admittedly, both are struggling, but the player we took (Horn) has had less production.  OK, so we see Malik Willis get drafted and immediately hit the phones--all QBs should have been heavily scouted.  We trade UP to get Corral, but why?  What was the difference between Corral and Howell?  I liked Purdy early in the draft research cycle, but I sorta forgot about him, and on a different team, I doubt he is Brock Purdy today.  But he was then and is now better than Matt Corral.  So why trade up?  Howell was drafted 2 round later, and Purdy, 2 rounds after Howell. 

I guess we should not be that worried about losing the first overall pick this year because our GM would probably draft Slim Pinkerton, holder on kickoffs when the wind is blowing. 

Pickett was just sat so that really isn't a miss not drafting him, it was actually the right choice.

The trade up was and still is baffling. SF thinks he is some genius trade machine and he really just loses way more than wins. If he stays then just trade all of the 2024 picks for 2025 picks because he is going to waste another class full picks. I can't belive he is still employeed.

[Waldo]

2 minutes ago, Captroop said:

You have to blame the scouts. Fitterer is making the call on the pick, but he's doing that based on the information he's getting from the people whose job it is to evaluate the talent level of prospects, and their ability to translate to the professional game.

I'll say it: I don't have a problem with the wheeling and dealing to be in on every deal and moving picks around. I think that's what Fitterer thinks the job of a GM is, and he does it very well.

 

The problem is that none of the picks we've traded for have panned out. If we'd hit, the CMC trade would look better. Hell, even the trade to #1 would look a lot better if we'd taken Stroud.

The problem is we have been consistently wrong on the talent we've been drafting, while much more talented players are being taken after them. We have an enormous talent evaluation problem. And while Fitterer is rightly in the crosshairs, don't expect that issue to be resolved if continue to have the same people with boots on the ground at the pro days and combines, who are watching the footwork, analyzing the BS next-gen metrics, looking at the health reports, and still drafting duds.

Wasn't SF a scout in Seattle? So he stinks at his job and his scouting department is probably trash, that department is directly under his job's management I believe. There is always the chance the scouts are not so bad and the people in charge listen to what they want but if the head scout is a GM that is a poor evalutor then his scouts are probibly bad also.

Also his trades are mostly fails so no he doesn't do it well. Bad trades and bad prospect evaluations equal total fail. Add in poor free agent aquisitions and it's a trifecta of suck. There really isn’t much positives that he brings to the table.

[Captroop]

1 minute ago, Waldo said:

Wasn't SF a scout in Seattle? So he stinks at his job and his scouting department is probably trash, that department is directly under his job's management I believe. There is always the chance the scouts are not so bad and the people in charge listen to what they want but if the head scout is a GM that is a poor evalutor then his scouts are probibly bad also.

Also his trades are mostly fails so no he doesn't do it well. Bad trades and bad prospect evaluations equal total fail. Add in poor free agent aquisitions and it's a trifecta of suck. There really isn’t much positives that he brings to the table.

I'm not arguing for him to keep his job. I'm arguing for everyone to keep their expectations low if he's replaced.

[Waldo]

2 minutes ago, Captroop said:

I'm not arguing for him to keep his job. I'm arguing for everyone to keep their expectations low if he's replaced.

Sorry. I read it like he wasn't at fault for the scouting and was like say what now.

I agree as in like zero at all and to the people who said it can't get worse I present the easiest path to worse in 2024.

[frankw]

54 minutes ago, Captroop said:

You have to blame the scouts. Fitterer is making the call on the pick, but he's doing that based on the information he's getting from the people whose job it is to evaluate the talent level of prospects, and their ability to translate to the professional game.

I'll say it: I don't have a problem with the wheeling and dealing to be in on every deal and moving picks around. I think that's what Fitterer thinks the job of a GM is, and he does it very well.

 

The problem is that none of the picks we've traded for have panned out. If we'd hit, the CMC trade would look better. Hell, even the trade to #1 would look a lot better if we'd taken Stroud.

The problem is we have been consistently wrong on the talent we've been drafting, while much more talented players are being taken after them. We have an enormous talent evaluation problem. And while Fitterer is rightly in the crosshairs, don't expect that issue to be resolved if continue to have the same people with boots on the ground at the pro days and combines, who are watching the footwork, analyzing the BS next-gen metrics, looking at the health reports, and still drafting duds.

I can agree the entire scouting department needs to be cleaned out.

But look let's be real about this. Almost all of Fitterer's trades have been underwhelming or just unnecessary at best. And trading all over the place in the draft ultimately got us what? The logic that having two dimes and a nickel is better than having a quarter doesn't jive.

Have you gone back and watched some old videos the last year or two and listened to Fitterer talk? It is not just the scouts feeding him this stuff. He believes it too. He's been on record as being a staunch Ian Thomas believer. The guy is terrible at talent evaluation. Random fans here could probably do better.

[Shotgun]

1 hour ago, Captroop said:

I'm not arguing for him to keep his job. I'm arguing for everyone to keep their expectations low if he's replaced.

I don't think expectations could be any lower.

[Panthers Fan 69]

20 hours ago, TN05 said:

2021 draft:
1) Jaycee Horn (1st, D) - When he's healthy, he looks pretty good. Unfortunately, he's never healthy, and there were better players taken around him.
2) Brady Christensen (2nd, B) - Unfortunate injury aside, solid player. Should be a good piece next year.
3) Tommy Tremble (3rd, C) - Really average player, looks okay on the whole. JAG.
4) Chubba Hubbard (4th, B) - He's improved every year and should be RB1 next year. Great value for a 4th rounder.
5) Dayvion Nixon (5th, D) - Played in 14 games with no starts and few stats.
6) Keith Taylor (5th, D) - JAG corner that is now on the Chiefs practice squad.
7) Deonte Brown (6th, D-) - Practice squad material.
8  Shi Smith (6th, D+) - JAG receiver that's out of a job.
9) Thomas Fletcher (6th, F-) - Unnecessary long snapper draft pick. Got injured in training camp and never played a game. Why.
10 Phil Hoskins (7th, D) - JAG on another team now

Overall grade - C. Decent value in early rounds, but whiffed early and late.

2022 draft:
1) Ickey (1st, F) - A franchise left tackle that can't pass block. We knew this before we drafted him, but still did it anyway. Yikes.
2) Matt Corral (3rd, F-) - Never played a snap in the NFL.
3) Brandon Smith (4th, D-) - Cut after one season.
4) Amare Barro (6th, D) - JAG backup player.
5) Cade Mays (6th, F) - Literally terrible
6) Kalon Barnes (7th, F) - Never played a snap for us, and has no job elsewhere.

Overall grade - F. Probably the worst draft class in team history.

2023 draft:
1) Bryce Young (1st, F) - Even if he pans out, the cost was not worth the sacrifice.
2) Jonathan Mingo (2nd, D) - He's looking better the last few weeks, but not the instant impact you expect from a second-rounder.
3) DJ Johnson (3rd, D) - He's still on the team?
4) Chandler Zavala (4th, F) - Oh look, another lineman who can't pass block.
5) Jammie Robinson (5th, C) - He's contributing I guess?

Overall grade: F. Life is suffering

Fire Scott Fitterer now, there is no excuse

That Clausen AE Pike draft OR the Everette Brown drafts would say…hold my beer. 

[hepcat]

It is truly hard to judge Fitterer because Tepper is so obviously involved in every decision and has created an echo chamber around him. Scott Fowler and other panthers media have reported he got rid of every person who told him the truth. From an outside perspective, Fitterer is horrible. But maybe even Tepper knows he didn’t give him a real chance which is why he hasn’t been fired yet.

But man where would we be if this team never lost Brandon Beane? The whole Gettleman debacle and bringing back Marty Hurney was the beginning of the mess we are in now, regardless of Tepper, who just made it much worse. 

[CRA]

30 minutes ago, hepcat said:

It is truly hard to judge Fitterer because Tepper is so obviously involved in every decision and has created an echo chamber around him. Scott Fowler and other panthers media have reported he got rid of every person who told him the truth. From an outside perspective, Fitterer is horrible. But maybe even Tepper knows he didn’t give him a real chance which is why he hasn’t been fired yet.

But man where would we be if this team never lost Brandon Beane? The whole Gettleman debacle and bringing back Marty Hurney was the beginning of the mess we are in now, regardless of Tepper, who just made it much worse. 

I still think Tepper does listen to folks to an extent.  I think he listens to Fitt to some extent.  I don't think Tepper has come up with all these nightmare moves on his own. 

end of the day, as has been for some time, Fitterer is horrible or a BEST case scenario completely pointless/worthless. 

[hepcat]

Just now, CRA said:

I still think Tepper does listen to folks to an extent.  I think he listens to Fitt to some extent.  I don't think Tepper has come up with all these nightmare moves on his own. 

end of the day, as has been for some time, Fitterer is horrible or a BEST case scenario completely pointless/worthless. 

The amount of trades the team makes + Tepper coming from a finance/hedge fund background (even he admits he enjoys making trades and "deals) = Tepper is pushing these decisions. To what extent? That's the real question. 

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, hepcat said:

The amount of trades the team makes + Tepper coming from a finance/hedge fund background (even he admits he enjoys making trades and "deals) = Tepper is pushing these decisions. To what extent? That's the real question. 

I don't think Tepper pushed for a DB in the top 10.  I don't think he pushed for a run centric LT.   I don't think he pushed for TMJ, Mingo, and on and on. 

I think he pushed for Bryce Young. 

Lot of this is just Fitt.  Big stuff Tepper.  That's my take.