A very basic litmus test 4 Fox (nothing to do with QBs)

[Wither]

You can have the most powerful Bomb in the world and it doesn't mean sh%% if you can't drop it on your enemy. I'm just saying.

So you're saying we have a powerful football?

Hmm...

[Jaxel]

But have they given it their best? Something that sticks out like a huge soar spot on our offense needs focused attention. Intellectually, it seems like we could have at least gotten lucky in several years.

There is a problem somewhere. Why can the Eagles be lucky with a Deshaun Jackson, the Bears with Earl Bennett and Johnny Knox, the Colts with Garcon and Collie, the Broncos with Eddie Royal, the Cowboys with Miles Austin (and to a lesser extent, Patrick Crayton), the Bills with Lee Evans, etc.? Now, not to say that some of these guys have lit the world on fire, but most have proven that they can and will catch the ball and burn defenses when given the chance, and have high upside with their best years in front of them. None of them, as with most WRs, are first round picks. When you think of first round picks---yes there are some busts, but...there are guys like Megatron, Fitz, Santonio Holmes, Roddy White, Braylon Edwards, Robert Meachem (yes, Robert Meachem), and others who have gotten the job done. We are just floundering when it comes to our WR2/WR3 position, and have been for years. This year has to be different. It just has to.

Regarding Delhomme, I believe that it's a little too easy to blame it on him. To me, if it's not the type of talent that we are bringing in---which I believe has to be the focus and/or main culprit---then it has to be the play calling.

Either way, our offense has to get a second, viable WR1/WR2 combination punch into the regular flow of our games (much less our athletically gifted TEs, ala Antonio Gates).

I mean, "Damn!"

It's like every WR that we have gotten over the last few years looks like a babe on the outside---especially after a few drinks---but when you get them home, on your way to second base, you realize that they've got stones.

How inept can Fox and company be?

Collie and Garcon are a product of Peyton Manning, not exactly that great, drop balls like crazy.

Royal didn't do anything recieving this year.

Roddy White is the only good reciever on Atlant's team.

Etc.

Not every team is gonna have a Fitz/Boldin Combo.. Im sure other teams are asking why they can't have an RB tandem like the panthers.

[top dawg]

Collie and Garcon are a product of Peyton Manning, not exactly that great, drop balls like crazy.

Royal didn't do anything recieving this year.

Roddy White is the only good reciever on Atlant's team.

Etc.

Not every team is gonna have a Fitz/Boldin Combo.. Im sure other teams are asking why they can't have an RB tandem like the panthers.

WRs are not products of QBs. The two positions have a sort of symbiotic relationship. QBs throw the balls, yes, but the WRs have to catch them.

Garcon and Collie had a few drops like everyone else, but they are not known for dropping balls "like crazy." They made some pretty great plays during the season, and that's one reason they made it to the big dance.

I mentioned Royal (among others) because of his upside (and to show that we can't even seem to get lucky with a half-way serious threat in the later rounds). Royal has proved that he can catch. Sometimes WRs are victims of play calling and their QBs tunnel vision (as we well know). Moreover, the reason that I mentioned Roddy White was to show that if you pick the right guy (and sometimes you do have to get that guy in the first round), impact WRs can be drafted in the first round if you are willing to make the investment. And, yes, Roddy White may be the only good WR on the Falcons; and, that's why comparisons/parallels can be made to other teams who lack a viable threat at the WRS position.

Teams won't necessarily have a Fitz-Boldin combo , but there are several teams who have WR 1-2 punches (and even WR3s and TEs) who if you leave the guys alone, you will be burned. Carolina and Atlanta don't fit that bill.

But teams like the Saints, Colts, Vikings, Cowboys, Packers, Chargers, and Steelers make teams pay when the opposition puts their main guy in double coverage. They keep teams honest. Carolina hasn't had that since the departure of the old Moose and Proehl. Teams pretty much know that if they can stop Smitty, then Double Trouble is our only valid threat (not to mention life before J. Stew and the emergence of D. Will).

Why hold ourselves back when this missing piece of the puzzle is so obvious? At some point the excuses have to stop, and you have to piss or get off the pot. Sometimes you have to do some soul searching and go do what you need to do, and stop half-assing. From the product on the field at the WR2 spot, half-assing is what our FO has been doing to address something that is so obvious.

[Mr ocho nueve]

Ugh, here we go again.....our wr's are decent, everyone looked better with Moore in there, so I wouldn't jump the gun yet. Jarrett has been improving, maybe this year he might start, who knows. Yea bring someone in, but don't jump gun on the talent on the team. Kenny Moore is also a good young player who just needs to learn the game. My biggest concern on our team right now, is the kicker position, yes the kicker.

[mountainpantherfan]

1) You can not put this solely on Fox. I will say this until I am blue in the face, Hurney's main job is to assemble the team and Fox's is to coach it. If Fox isn't asking for WR or even saying he doesn't need/want WRs then its Hurney's job to reconize the error and proceed anyway.

2) While this isn't solely a Jake Delhomme problem, it does have merit. Look, for example, at the Vikings. Before Farve no one would have included the Vikings as a team with multiple threats at the WR position as they do the Colt, Saints and Cardinals. Then, all of a sudden, Farve becomes the QB and they all look like All-Pros.

3) With the aboved stated, I do agree with you. This team does need more weapons at WR and I think the team has gone about it the wrong way. They have constantly looked for just a #2 reciever with the other WR positions just fillers from camp and other team's cast-offs. They really need to look at adding more quanity rather than just one quality WR. Let's say the team only adds Marshall via trade. Thats great but to me the better investment would be to add 2 or 3 lesser talants but who are still talented.

Just think if they retained Moose but in a backup/Prohle type of role, added Kevin Walter from the Texans and Brandon Lloyd from the Broncos. Add on top of that Smitty and that is a fairly impressive group.

[top dawg]

Just think if they retained Moose but in a backup/Prohle type of role, added Kevin Walter from the Texans and Brandon Lloyd from the Broncos. Add on top of that Smitty and that is a fairly impressive group.

Walter and Lloyd are probably a little more realistic, considering what the FO has done in the last few years. That would be interesting. The year before last, Lloyd was showing a lot of promise, and Walter has always been decent. The thing is is that some other position may suffer because of it...that's unless we get rid of the hometown boy, Jarrett, and/or Moose, which would pretty much nullify the the outcome that you'd be looking for. It's like playing musical chairs with our WRs. If we go for the marquee name, then the fans "wouldn't stand" for the person not being intimately involved with the flow of the offense. There wouldn't be any excuse not to get either Smitty or Brandon Marshall (for example) because teams couldn't take both of those types of talent out the game simultaneously. The only one that could do that would be John Fox because of play calling, or shaky QB play (most likely from Delhomme).

Who knows, maybe this is a QB/coaching problem? Perhaps Carolina is now the place where "where wide receivers go to die."

[mountainpantherfan]

Walter and Lloyd are probably a little more realistic, considering what the FO has done in the last few years. That would be interesting. The year before last, Lloyd was showing a lot of promise, and Walter has always been decent. The thing is is that some other position may suffer because of it...that's unless we get rid of the hometown boy, Jarrett, and/or Moose, which would pretty much nullify the the outcome that you'd be looking for. It's like playing musical chairs with our WRs. If we go for the marquee name, then the fans "wouldn't stand" for the person not being intimately involved with the flow of the offense. There wouldn't be any excuse not to get either Smitty or Brandon Marshall (for example) because teams couldn't take both of those types of talent out the game simultaneously. The only one that could do that would be John Fox because of play calling, or shaky QB play (most likely from Delhomme).

Who knows, maybe this is a QB/coaching problem? Perhaps Carolina is now the place where "where wide receivers go to die."

In my seniro of Smith/Walter/Moose/Lloyd there would be no Jarrett or Moore. Or maybe neither as those top four, all quality, would be enough.

But let's also not forget that this team is and should be a run first team based on the way it has been built. You don't have the RB and O-Lineman we have and then go out and try to playcall like the Saints and Colts do. A healthy balance is best and that could mean that a game here or there Smith is only going to get a catch or two. And that is okay as long as one of the other WRs step up.

Off topic but do you or anyone else remember a while back Hurney saying that he trys to build the team by spliting the cap among the different units? i.e. if the cap was $100million then the WR would only make up $15million total and that is the budget in the specific unit. I may be imagining things but if this is how he operates it may be a reason for certain moves being made over the years like the WR position.

[top dawg]

Sorry, guys. I had to bump this. I am just kinda pissed that we didn't even make an attempt to get Houshmandzadeh. With the recent draft picks that we have made, I was beginning to think that maybe our FO gets it. I was saying, "Man, they are smart. Opportunistic, but smart." You know what? Perhaps they aren't so damn smart as they are lucky. Why in the hell wouldn't you even try to sign a guy (who signed at the veteran minimum, no less) who is experienced, with still a couple of good years left in the tank, to help our team?

WHY?

But this isn't even about Housh, per se. No, no, this is about having a team that looks like it is close to having ALL the pieces in place to make an unexpected run to the big show. Smitty is not getting any younger, double trouble is still together, and the defense is fast, motivated, and looks scary! Moreover, we have a guy that is 6-2 as a starter, and the future franchse QB waiting in the wings What the hell are we missing? The same thing we've been missing for years.

No disrespect to the young "talent" that we have. The WR corps with some upside. But sometimes the play during the pre-season of the wide-outs was upside down.

[Pimpdaddy]

....With the exception of true legends most WR's that are 'stars' are a product of the offensive system or philosophy employed. Smitty by committee made our offensive passing game the best it could be but it goes back to the system, which sucks cock... I mean how can you have a player like Smitty and still suck.... Its already another indictment on fox...

[Cyberjag]

Ever since our last conference championship, it has been painfully obvious the we need another viable threat at WR. Over the last several years we have drafted projects who were suspect (Carter, Colbert, and Jarrett), signed an injury prone vet who made close to zero impact (Hackett), and signed two vets who were good in their prime, but had (and have) seen their better days (Moose and Johnson).

Sorry, guys. I had to bump this. I am just kinda pissed that we didn't even make an attempt to get Houshmandzadeh.

Give me a few minutes while I try and reconcile all this. I think that trying to follow your logic has left me a little dizzy.

[jasonluckydog]

Sidney Rice was almost a bust then Favre showed up and Rice is a pro bowler wrq

[rayzor]

i don't know how anyone knows we didn't try to get housh (even though it's doubtful that we did). he could essentially choose where he wanted to go and if i were him i probably wouldn't have either. same could be said for any number of WR options that have been available. what chance do we have of even getting to the playoffs? most people think we won't even have a winning season.

anyway, they did a lot to try and improve the passing game and much of it was what many fans had been wanting...draft a QB and WR early. first three picks went to that this year.

they also got rid of jake which was a huge positive move.

they just didn't get a solid vet WR presence this year and i think that is going to really limit what they can do. this will probably be the best thing for the young receivers, getting them on the field more > sitting behind a mentor and watching from the sidelines.

it's just frustrating seeing how good the defense is looking and knowing how good the run game is plus seeing how well matt did last year (and having clausen waiting in the wings) we are soooo close to having ourselves a great team that has serious potential THIS year if only we had a WR across from smith that was solid.

[Punisher]

Evans was a 1st

Jackson and Royal were 2nds

We have invested three seconds now(Colbert, Jarrett, Edwards)and a couple of FA WR's into getting another reciever. We have tried.

[Nu Guns]

Ever since our last conference championship, it has been painfully obvious the we need another viable threat at WR. Over the last several years we have drafted projects who were suspect (Carter, Colbert, and Jarrett), signed an injury prone vet who made close to zero impact (Hackett), and signed two vets who were good in their prime, but had (and have) seen their better days (Moose and Johnson).

I mean, "Wow!" The only thing that has saved our passing game at all is Smitty (no disrespect to the second tenure of an old Moose). If not for him, our wide receiving corps would have been a wide receiving corpse. Truly! We have made by on Smitty's back, basically, but of course this has made our passing game highly inefficient, suspect and vulnerable.

So, I am here to tell you guys, right now: if John Fox doesn't address our need---Smitty's need---for a viable, bona fide threat at WR to take the pressure off of Smitty (and the rest of our offense), then Fox is a football fool of epic proportions. Our passing game has been akin to a bird trying to fly with a broken wing for years. We are a Smitty away from having Oakland's passing game.

Yes, a possible franchise QB may be the best thing that happens for this football team's long term success (except for a new philosophy, err, coach), but I am here to tell you that a top-flight WR should be what you look for to see if Fox can do the impossible: win and work himself back into the good graces of the majority of Panther land, and show that he deserves our confidence once again. If Fox can't do this, then there will not only be a parade of red flags, but that lone white flag come December.

good post !!!:gnorsi: