If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...it's a duck.

[Saca312]

Time for me to eat crow.

I've been an optimist for quite some time. Often, I'd look and find the positives of any pooshow and fit them to fit a narrative that there is hope. 

After 2015, I parroted 2016 as a year not one where Cam Newton regressed, but rather progressed in a sea of mediocrity. This year, I started out clamoring the belief that this coaching staff melded together a force to be reckoned with, and any preseason doomsday predictions was mere folly, hinging my bets that this "all-star coaching" staff merely did not play their cards and instead would unleash an ingenius offensive explosion in the regular season. Naysayers such as @LinvilleGorge were posters I ignored with regularity as the season went on, with myself holding onto faint hope that something would soon spark.

Turns out, meshing together conflicting minds, despite their pedigree, does not ensure a well oiled machine. Instead, the team faltered in leadership, cohesion, and effectiveness, barreling their way to the 1-12 record they hold today. Dysfunction across the board, infighting and CYA attitudes flourished in the misery that is the 2023 Carolina Panthers.

But even despite that, my optimism wanted to take hold in another form - fanaticism for our #1 overall pick that we've mortgaged the future for. Ignoring the red flags, I hyper-focused on the good. He made accurate throws and anticipated well at times. He seemed to progress through his reads at first. He scrambled well at certain other times too. These moments were instances in which I hyper-fixated on and believed that Young would build upon these and become the franchise QB this team desperately needs.

Any failures or inadequacies on offense, I blamed on the situation. Without a doubt, these receivers are sub-par, and the offensive line horrid. The scheme was a terrible mesh all around for the personnel, and Young did not fit in Reich's mold whatsoever.

And yes, the offensive system and personnel around Bryce are a problem. They are largely ineffective across all fronts. But, as the season went on and opportunities started presenting themselves more, I began to notice something.

Despite bettering conditions, Young's play hasn't improved. His negatives continued, and reared its ugly head in today's game against the Saints.

The Carolina Panthers have rushed for 200+ yards. That is an absolutely bonkers statline considering the offensive line and how the run game looked at the beginning of the year. This would normally result in a fair win.

Instead, the offense could barely muster any points, and rather sputtered when Young was asked to be an NFL QB.

You can argue about the flashes he's shown all you want and how he made this throw or did this thing in the pocket, but the crux of those flashes are simple expectations for an NFL starter. You'd hope they'd have accurate throws, be able to anticipate, and occasionally ad-lib when things break down.

That is the bare minimum expectation, and celebrating normal events that NFL QBs do is like praising an adult for wiping his ass after a poo. "Congratulations Bryce Young, you did an NFL QB thing that any of the other 31 starters could do."

And at one point, I was a part of that group praising Young for knowing how to flush a toilet. The bare basics were touted as positives.

Let's be real: Bryce Young is not a UDFA or tryout type player. He is the number 1 overall pick. In addition, the Panthers have given up their future with the expectation Young would be their guy. As the number 1 overall pick, he makes quite a bit of money for a rookie, and the expectation is that he would progress to be better than the average.

At a minimum, the expectation is to see flashes of top tier talent. His super-processor should allow him to elevate poor conditions and showcase ability to elevate the team around him. He is the #1 overall pick, he was drafted with that expectation in mind, and he is paid good money to be able to do just that.

When the most common defense is "Young's team is so bad around him, that's why he's playing poorly," then expectation is that he'd take advantage of the rare opportunities that present themselves when WRs get open and the oline blocks decently.

Today, those opportunities presented themselves, and Young poo the bed. He forgot to flush, he forgot to wipe his ass, and he downright wasted his opportunities and continued a worrying trend - he's not improving, but instead regressing even more.

Regression after the pitiful start Young has had is quite something. The Falcons game showed early on Young misfiring deep shots to open WRs, and making mental errors on his interceptions to Bates. That can be excused as lack of cohesion with Young and his receivers, with the expectation he improves.

He hasn't improved. He airballs wide open receivers to this day and fails to connect on the deep opportunities that present itself. He finally had a good run game going and deep shots were finally considered - he just outright missed those opportunities and looked as bad as he did downfield in week 1.

His mechanics still sucks. He's shown mistakes in processing, and his throwing velocity sucks. His athletic limitations especially rear its ugly head with opposite hash sideline throws and downfield - defenders often keep up with the ball because they're in the NFL and are hyper-athletic freaks. 

Young's limitations and mistakes have cost this team games, rather than help them win games. He cannot elevate the team around him, but instead needs others to elevate him.

That's fine if you're a bottom round pick, but the first overall pick should habe the ability to elevate the team around him and show flashes of greatness. 

It's week 14 and I haven't seen much to the that effect. Rather, I've seen too many bad habits continue and getting worse.

 

In today's league, speed is everything, and noodle arm QBs with bad mechanics and poor athleticism will fall behind. Defenses are fast. Anticipation (guessing) is overrated and falls short when the arm talent isn't there. Those opposite hash throws Young attempts at times are downright awful in velocity and it's hilarious seeing defenders catch up to it.

Bryce Young quacks like a bust, swims like a bust, and looks like a bust. 

He's probably a bust, and a failure for where he was drafted and the value given up for him.

It's week 14. He was the number 1 overall pick that DJ Moore, 2024's #1 overall pick and more were traded for. He has shown more traits of being a bust instead of a success.

Take off the rose colored glasses and acknowledge - this team fugged up, and Young is a part of the problem. He won't ever justify the value given up, nor even the standalone fact of being the #1 overall pick. His limitations lower his ceiling, and even if he finds his collegiate strengths, he'll fail to achieve anything more than being a middle of the pack QB at best.

Maybe he'll improve when he gets a top tier oline and WR help. Sure, that's fine, and his play will henceworth hinge on making sure his surroundings are elite rather than hoping he'd be elite. That's not what you want out of a #1 overall pick, since even the likes of mr. irrelevant Brock Purdy can do that.

 

As @electro's horse pointed out when I relinquished my fanaticism in Young, these are dark times indeed.

[The Lobo]

30 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Maybe he'll improve when he gets a top tier oline and WR help. Sure, that's fine, and his play will henceworth hinge on making sure his surroundings are elite rather than hoping he'd be elite. That's not what you want out of a #1 overall pick, since even the likes of mr. irrelevant Brock Purdy can do that.

 

As @electro's horse pointed out when I relinquished my fanaticism in Young, these are dark times indeed.

Well said on all things but this last paragraph here was excellent. How good is he if he has to have all this talent around him? But What do we do, not give him anything like cam or spend every resource on giving him weapons and the defense sucks? 

[jfra78]

1 minute ago, The Lobo said:

Well said on all things but this last paragraph here was excellent. How good is he if he has to have all this talent around him? But What do we do, not give him anything like cam or spend every resource on giving him weapons and the defense sucks? 

Reset in 2025 is all we can do.  

[Saca312]

29 minutes ago, The Lobo said:

But What do we do, not give him anything like cam or spend every resource on giving him weapons and the defense sucks? 

You give him weapons. At this point that's all you can do. Get some elite level talent on offense and hope he becomes serviceable.

Goff shows benefits from a scheme and offense that elevates his play. Purdy is also a very good example of that.

Young can be like that too. That is the only way the Panthers can salvage this team.

That will never change the fact that the value we have given up for Young was not worth it and very idiotic. For the value of DJ Moore, 2024's first overall pick, to only get decent level play from your QB in the right conditions is pathetic. 

The value given up dictates that the return should include a QB who elevates the team around him. Young fails at that at the NFL level. Stroud or Richardson (for his short stint) have shown to elevate their conditions and would have been more worth it than Young's impact.

[SmittysLawnGuy]

Welcome aboard, next stop, Straight to Hell!

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, jfra78 said:

Reset in 2025 is all we can do.  

We don't even have to reset. All we have to do is start Dalton.

But our owner is too fuging retarded to do that. He'd rather nosedive this franchise even further into the abyss than make the right call and get out of the way. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by kungfoodude

[BenjaminBreeg]

3 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Regression after the pitiful start Young has had is quite something. The Falcons game showed early on Young misfiring deep shots to open WRs, and making mental errors on his interceptions to Bates. That can be excused as lack of cohesion with Young and his receivers, with the expectation he improves.

He hasn't improved. He airballs wide open receivers to this day and fails to connect on the deep opportunities that present itself. He finally had a good run game going and deep shots were finally considered - he just outright missed those opportunities and looked as bad as he did downfield in week 1.

Bryce has never been accurate on deep throws. During his best statistical year at Alabama, Bryce completed only 36.1% of passes 20 yards or longer. That is freaking atrocious. For comparison, Tua's completion rate at Alabama on passes 20 yards or longer was 57.1%, and Mac Jones' was 58%. 

Young's deep ball accuracy is not gonna suddenly and miraculously improve in the NFL, which begs the question: how in the world did our evaluators and scouts miss this giant red flag? I thought Tepper prides himself on using analytics, so how did they miss this?

20-yard throws	Comp.	Att.	%	Yards	Y/A	Y/C	Drop
2021: Young	10	33	36.1%	416	12.6	41.6	9%
2020: Jones	29	50	58%	1,279	25.6	44.1	8%
2019: Tua	17	35	48.6%	659	18.8	38.8	3%
2018: Tua	24	42	57.1%	944	22.5	39.3	2%
Source: SECStatCat

[BIGH2001]

18 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We don't even have to reset. All we have to do is start Dalton.

But our owner is too fuging retarded to do that. He'd rather nosedive this franchise even further into the abyss than make the right call and get out of the way. 

With Dalton we’d be 4-2 or 5-1 over the last 6 games. Our schedule since the bye has been a joke. The fact that we’ve won not a single one of these games and have produced one passing touchdown in the last 5 tells me all I need to know about how subpar the quarterback play has been. Reich had so little confidence in young that he tried that field goal in Chicago that even our kicker knew he had no chance to make over going for it on 4th. I’m sure the entire staff knows the deal but they can’t bench him because it will draw the ire of Tepper.

Edited December 11, 2023 by BIGH2001

[electro's horse]

1 hour ago, SmittysLawnGuy said:

Welcome aboard, next stop, Straight to Hell!

 

[FutureDynasty]

[PghPanther]

Thanks to Tepper this whole franchise has a stubborn stench that no flush could get rid of ..........just like a an old fart lingering in a closet.

[Martin]

The best thing to do now is the obvious complete clean out of the front office and coaching staff (I would 100% interview Evero if he’s up for it).

Then continue to build the team in FA and draft followed by an OPEN QB competition. Bryce has to earn his spot. If he does, good for him, if he doesn’t, so be it. That’s how you win the team back and set yourself up for the future. The you go new QB in the draft in 2025.

[Martin]

4 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Time for me to eat crow.

I've been an optimist for quite some time. Often, I'd look and find the positives of any pooshow and fit them to fit a narrative that there is hope. 

After 2015, I parroted 2016 as a year not one where Cam Newton regressed, but rather progressed in a sea of mediocrity. This year, I started out clamoring the belief that this coaching staff melded together a force to be reckoned with, and any preseason doomsday predictions was mere folly, hinging my bets that this "all-star coaching" staff merely did not play their cards and instead would unleash an ingenius offensive explosion in the regular season. Naysayers such as @LinvilleGorge were posters I ignored with regularity as the season went on, with myself holding onto faint hope that something would soon spark.

Turns out, meshing together conflicting minds, despite their pedigree, does not ensure a well oiled machine. Instead, the team faltered in leadership, cohesion, and effectiveness, barreling their way to the 1-12 record they hold today. Dysfunction across the board, infighting and CYA attitudes flourished in the misery that is the 2023 Carolina Panthers.

But even despite that, my optimism wanted to take hold in another form - fanaticism for our #1 overall pick that we've mortgaged the future for. Ignoring the red flags, I hyper-focused on the good. He made accurate throws and anticipated well at times. He seemed to progress through his reads at first. He scrambled well at certain other times too. These moments were instances in which I hyper-fixated on and believed that Young would build upon these and become the franchise QB this team desperately needs.

Any failures or inadequacies on offense, I blamed on the situation. Without a doubt, these receivers are sub-par, and the offensive line horrid. The scheme was a terrible mesh all around for the personnel, and Young did not fit in Reich's mold whatsoever.

And yes, the offensive system and personnel around Bryce are a problem. They are largely ineffective across all fronts. But, as the season went on and opportunities started presenting themselves more, I began to notice something.

Despite bettering conditions, Young's play hasn't improved. His negatives continued, and reared its ugly head in today's game against the Saints.

The Carolina Panthers have rushed for 200+ yards. That is an absolutely bonkers statline considering the offensive line and how the run game looked at the beginning of the year. This would normally result in a fair win.

Instead, the offense could barely muster any points, and rather sputtered when Young was asked to be an NFL QB.

You can argue about the flashes he's shown all you want and how he made this throw or did this thing in the pocket, but the crux of those flashes are simple expectations for an NFL starter. You'd hope they'd have accurate throws, be able to anticipate, and occasionally ad-lib when things break down.

That is the bare minimum expectation, and celebrating normal events that NFL QBs do is like praising an adult for wiping his ass after a poo. "Congratulations Bryce Young, you did an NFL QB thing that any of the other 31 starters could do."

And at one point, I was a part of that group praising Young for knowing how to flush a toilet. The bare basics were touted as positives.

Let's be real: Bryce Young is not a UDFA or tryout type player. He is the number 1 overall pick. In addition, the Panthers have given up their future with the expectation Young would be their guy. As the number 1 overall pick, he makes quite a bit of money for a rookie, and the expectation is that he would progress to be better than the average.

At a minimum, the expectation is to see flashes of top tier talent. His super-processor should allow him to elevate poor conditions and showcase ability to elevate the team around him. He is the #1 overall pick, he was drafted with that expectation in mind, and he is paid good money to be able to do just that.

When the most common defense is "Young's team is so bad around him, that's why he's playing poorly," then expectation is that he'd take advantage of the rare opportunities that present themselves when WRs get open and the oline blocks decently.

Today, those opportunities presented themselves, and Young poo the bed. He forgot to flush, he forgot to wipe his ass, and he downright wasted his opportunities and continued a worrying trend - he's not improving, but instead regressing even more.

Regression after the pitiful start Young has had is quite something. The Falcons game showed early on Young misfiring deep shots to open WRs, and making mental errors on his interceptions to Bates. That can be excused as lack of cohesion with Young and his receivers, with the expectation he improves.

He hasn't improved. He airballs wide open receivers to this day and fails to connect on the deep opportunities that present itself. He finally had a good run game going and deep shots were finally considered - he just outright missed those opportunities and looked as bad as he did downfield in week 1.

His mechanics still sucks. He's shown mistakes in processing, and his throwing velocity sucks. His athletic limitations especially rear its ugly head with opposite hash sideline throws and downfield - defenders often keep up with the ball because they're in the NFL and are hyper-athletic freaks. 

Young's limitations and mistakes have cost this team games, rather than help them win games. He cannot elevate the team around him, but instead needs others to elevate him.

That's fine if you're a bottom round pick, but the first overall pick should habe the ability to elevate the team around him and show flashes of greatness. 

It's week 14 and I haven't seen much to the that effect. Rather, I've seen too many bad habits continue and getting worse.

 

In today's league, speed is everything, and noodle arm QBs with bad mechanics and poor athleticism will fall behind. Defenses are fast. Anticipation (guessing) is overrated and falls short when the arm talent isn't there. Those opposite hash throws Young attempts at times are downright awful in velocity and it's hilarious seeing defenders catch up to it.

Bryce Young quacks like a bust, swims like a bust, and looks like a bust. 

He's probably a bust, and a failure for where he was drafted and the value given up for him.

It's week 14. He was the number 1 overall pick that DJ Moore, 2024's #1 overall pick and more were traded for. He has shown more traits of being a bust instead of a success.

Take off the rose colored glasses and acknowledge - this team fugged up, and Young is a part of the problem. He won't ever justify the value given up, nor even the standalone fact of being the #1 overall pick. His limitations lower his ceiling, and even if he finds his collegiate strengths, he'll fail to achieve anything more than being a middle of the pack QB at best.

Maybe he'll improve when he gets a top tier oline and WR help. Sure, that's fine, and his play will henceworth hinge on making sure his surroundings are elite rather than hoping he'd be elite. That's not what you want out of a #1 overall pick, since even the likes of mr. irrelevant Brock Purdy can do that.

 

As @electro's horse pointed out when I relinquished my fanaticism in Young, these are dark times indeed.

Very well written. I started out just like you but, staying positive to a fault, but the overwhelming evidence of what is happening caught up to me a couple of games back. 

[LinvilleGorge]

We've all been wrong before. We've all wanted prospects who went on to bust and didn't want prospects who turned out to be great players. I've certainly done both and I'll do both again in the future. It's fine. It's the folks who can't swallow the bitter pill and do mental gymnastics to create ever shifting narratives of excuses while refusing to acknowledge their own fallibility that baffle me.