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Hot take: We need a defensive-oriented coach

TN05

By TN05,
in Carolina Panthers

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Camp Fodder said:

I am not really sure what specialty Matt Rhule was

yep, he was sold as basically a poor man's Dabo (minus the religious angle). 

that's not what Rhule was.  I don't know what he was.  A lucky college coach that fluked into some respectable seasons off D paired with meh offense.   

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FuFuLamePoo Experienced

FuFuLamePoo

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I think we are too caught up in these labels sometimes. We simply need someone that has a clear identity for building up this entire roster from the ground up. A vision that you do not waver from. You want to build a tough, defensive minded team that plays mistake free football? Fine. You want to build the most dynamic, high flying offense in the league? Fine. But we've had too many different voices from too many different backgrounds as of late.

We need a GM + HC that are on the same page for the type of team they want to build. Construct the roster accordingly. 

I at least agree that we don't need to be totally set on an offensive coach. Hire anyone that's interested and go with the person that will establish a culture.

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methodtoll Proficient

methodtoll

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Car123 said:

John Harbaugh, Tony Dungy, Mike Tomlin were defensive coaches.

If you want to get technical, John Harbaugh was a Special Teams coach prior to getting the head coach... Still though, Tony Dungy is out of the league so not sure how he is even relevant in this conversation and Mike Tomlin's offenses are struggling and many are calling for his job.

This isn't the same league that it was 10-15 years ago, it's not built for defenses to bail out the offense. It's offensive driven league.

Edited by methodtoll
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Car123 Proficient

Car123

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38 minutes ago, methodtoll said:

If you want to get technical, John Harbaugh was a Special Teams coach prior to getting the head coach... Still though, Tony Dungy is out of the league so not sure how he is even relevant in this conversation and Mike Tomlin's offenses are struggling and many are calling for his job.

This isn't the same league that it was 10-15 years ago, it's not built for defenses to bail out the offense. It's offensive driven league.

Wanted to quote stating that only Belichick and Carol are the only defensive coach to win since 2006.

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MasterAwesome Veteran

MasterAwesome

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13 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

We need a great coach and a great playcaller. They don't need to be the same person. People seem too stuck on the head coach having to call plays but that's absolutely not necessary and sometimes detrimental when it causes the coach to be overstretched. 

Two of the biggest turnarounds in recent history don't have offensive coaches: Houston and Detroit. 4 of the best coaches of this generation are not offensive: Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll. 

I'm not saying we shouldn't hire an OC as the next head coacb. I'd be super excited if we could nab Ben Johnson. I just don't think we should be completely hellbent on hiring an OC that we essentially rule out hiring a DC from the jump. We just need to make sure any new head coach has a plan to bring along a promising offensive coordinator to fix this offense.

I don't know if this is necessarily borne out empirically, but I think intuitively there is a belief that a great OC with creative playcalling (especially a fresh young up-and-comer) is way more likely to get poached for a head coaching gig.  The Mike McDaniel/Kyle Shanahan/Sean McVay archetype is the shiny new ideal that I think teams strive for, which is why Ben Johnson has been a hot name over the last year or so.

Then again, you still have DCs like Demeco Ryans, Robert Saleh, Jonathan Gannon, etc. getting poached so it would be interesting to actually track the hirings.  It just feels intuitive that a young offensive-minded HC doubling as an innovative play-caller is the ideal commodity in the modern NFL.  It feels like an innovative talented defensive playcaller doesn't quite have the same potential moving the needle for a team's overall success that an equally talented offensive counterpart does.  Evero seems to be an example of that, but we'll also see how hot of a head coaching candidate he is next year.

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BlueBuck24 Enthusiast

BlueBuck24

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Hire a good GM who understands the importance of draft capital, roster evaluation and timing when it comes to roster building.

 

Hire a good HC, who has a plan for Bryce and the offense (whether he’s the playcaller or an offensive guy or not, is aligned with the GM, and allow him to build his own staff.

 

profit. 

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Growl Veteran

Growl

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Posted (edited)

Saying you need a defensive coach because John Fox coached defense is like saying you need to draft short WRs because Steve smith was 5’9”

they need an offensive mind that can consistently maximize the talents of offensive players in a league that is structurally slanted to favor offense 

 

Edited by Growl
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CPcavedweller Veteran

CPcavedweller

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On 12/7/2023 at 8:44 PM, TN05 said:

Let's be real here. We've had exactly three somewhat-successful coaches in team history - Dom Capers, John Fox, and Ron Rivera. All of them were defensive coaches. Our three attempts at offensive coaches (George Seifert, Matt Rhule, and Frank Reich) didn't pan out. As-is, the strength of this team is definitely defense, and it has been for a while now. I think the right coach could make this unit something special. It's certainly easier to repair than the offense.

In the short-term, this team could easily be reworked to have a top-tier defense - and at that point, your offensive needs become a lot more clear. Plus, giving Bryce - or whatever quarterback we have in 2025 - a top-tier defense takes a ton of weight off a young quarterback. It's no surprise Cam Newton's third year - the year with the best defense of the recent Panthers era - was a playoff year.

Anyway, agree or disagree, I hope the coach is good, but I'd love to not see another desperate attempt to revolutionize the offense.

I've been saying this since 2019. I really yelled it last off-season and was nearly banned for it.

Now you're getting pie?

Being a visionary is hard sometimes man. 

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woahfraze Collaborator

woahfraze

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Growl said:

Saying you need a defensive coach because John Fox coached defense is like saying you need to draft short WRs because Steve smith was 5’9”

they need an offensive mind that can consistently maximize the talents of offensive players in a league that is structurally slanted to favor offense 

 

This. 
 

What bearing does our past have on our present when we have a new owner and no culture to speak of? It might be different if we had continuity of culture throughout all those years set from the top down, but that’s not the case. We need to build a new identity. 

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